Tammy Abraham

[Dave-R]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Who is 'they'? I am annoyed about it to be honest. Not at the media, not at Stan. Not even, really, at the people in the video who clearly require education. I am annoyed at the fans who are completely incapable of stepping back and listening to a person of colour explain why it is unacceptable. 

It has nothing to do with the word black. In a vacuum there is nothing wrong with describing somebody as black. It is the context within which it is used. In the example of the song Tammy is being DEFINED by the colour of his skin, accidentally, innocently or otherwise. It's not that subtle a difference and therein lies the issue. 

With your stepfather you had consent. That is completely different. If Tammy were to come out and say he likes it, then we can talk about that further. I still wouldn't sing it because this isn't just about Tammy, not all person's of colour are the same. An obvious point which shouldn't need saying, but it seems to. However it would at least be conversation worthy, until then your personal story is of absolutely no relevance here. It's the same with Akinfenwa describing himself as a beast. Consent, always seek it first. If there is none, don't even go there. Simple.

We live in a day and age where racial prejudice is unacceptable to many and they feel more and more comfortable calling it out. Finally. It's a start. 

It was used within a song as a moment of celebration and somebody/people didn't think, while it will catch on it should of been left well alone after that by everybody, including here.

The more people come out with the chant now is on all those that have carried this on into a drama feat which is what it is.

Tammy most likely finds it hilarious who knows yet other Black females and males will not.

It's all about who accepts it for what it was and who doesn't. I couldnt give a damn who calls me a white whatever, it's just words to me yet in the Midlands I suffered enough racial abuse myself, you get used to it and learn to move on and ignore it.

Again bringing it lime light like it has only drives those real hate racing humans to do it and use it in the real nasty ways that it shouldn't be used for. Believe me it will carry on for even longer now because of the wide coverage of it.

Best to let it all drop and let's get back to talking about Tammy as the player he is. Instead of all this political correctness bull crap, whining, moaning whatever you want to call it this day and age. Nobody can do a thing without the sheep moving towards something and making it a million times worse by making it a thing.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

This chants just a pure No. Knock it on the head and be done with it.  We don’t even need to go in to why. Somethings just shouldn’t be done but I also don’t think a big thing should be made of it. But that’s social media for you. 

Please don’t tell me this was sang at Villa park?

[ROTTERDAM1982]

Scottish Cafu offensive as well then?

The song for Tammy is just parroting the original song.

We are going to get to the stage where any kind of identification is going to be offensive at this rate.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Scottish Cafu offensive as well then?

The song for Tammy is just parroting the original song.

We are going to get to the stage where any kind of identification is going to be offensive at this rate.

Not quite mate. Racism in football is a sensitive subject.  Whilst the chant may not be racist it just doesn’t feel right to me. 

[Davkaus]

3 hours ago, S-Platt said:

just change the words to Jack and Tammy job done!?

Woooooah, jack Tammy Abraham?

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Davkaus

[ROTTERDAM1982]

Fair enough Vive, but im not sure where we are going with all this " I see racism evetwhere".

For example is Black History Week not patronising?

[Keyblade]

28 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Scottish Cafu offensive as well then?

The song for Tammy is just parroting the original song.

We are going to get to the stage where any kind of identification is going to be offensive at this rate.

The fact that Scottish is a nationality notwithstanding, it's not like he was called the black Alan Shearer or something, which is much less egregious. It was literally just Black Tammy.

A more appropriate comparison is if Hutton was called White Alan or something. Which sounds preposterous, because it is. It would never happen, because Alan's whiteness is not noteworthy. It's normal, accepted.

[Dr_Pangloss]

45 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

John Terry famously called Anton Ferdinand a black b*st*rd. Black isn't a slur, but it was still racist. 

Whether in insult or praise, it's still ultimately singling out a person's race. The flawed line of thinking is exactly the same. Only the emotions differ.

I don't disagree with this but it doesn't follow that fans who are chanting this chant would resort to using black in that way should things go wrong with him, it would IMO be a very small subset of idiots who are already racist.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I don't disagree with this but it doesn't follow that fans who are chanting this chant would resort to using black in that way should things go wrong with him, it would IMO be a very small subset of idiots who are already racist.

I'm just speculating and following the logic to its conclusion. Of course I don't think all of those fans would do that should things go bad, but put it this way...the ones who do will be following the same logic that led them to sing that song. So it's important to call out that logic and not just excuse it as harmless.

If I were Tammy I'd be livid. Scored 26 goals and put in hard working shifts every game and the best my fans can come up with to describe me is black? FFS.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

It was used within a song as a moment of celebration and somebody/people didn't think, while it will catch on it should of been left well alone after that by everybody, including here.

I bet you it doesn't catch on, because most people get it. 

Quote

Tammy most likely finds it hilarious who knows yet other Black females and males will not.

It's all about who accepts it for what it was and who doesn't. I couldnt give a damn who calls me a white whatever, it's just words to me yet in the Midlands I suffered enough racial abuse myself, you get used to it and learn to move on and ignore it.

Again bringing it lime light like it has only drives those real hate racing humans to do it and use it in the real nasty ways that it shouldn't be used for. Believe me it will carry on for even longer now because of the wide coverage of it.

First off, that's one hell of an assumption. The one person of colour who I have seen speak up about it so far has said he finds it abhorrent. Instead of assuming, you should try listening. Also black and brown people are individuals, there isn't a hive mind. Even if Tammy IS fine with it, that doesn't make it OK, I only said that we should listen to him. 

To compare your experiences of racial prejudice as a white man is utterly bizarre IMO. As if thousands of years of ongoing oppression against people of colour didn't happen. It's proper edgelord stuff.

As for highlighting racism or racial undertones within football making things worse, I don't know if you have been paying attention to what is going on lately? And has been going on for the entire time people of colour have been involved within football? Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, far from it. It festers. People need to speak up, highlight black voices, platform them. Listen to them. 

I like you Dave-R but you are wide of the mark here. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Fair enough Vive, but im not sure where we are going with all this " I see racism evetwhere".

For example is Black History Week not patronising?

I know where you’re coming from mate.  It’s a tricky subject. Probably one for the racism thread. 

[Lerner's Driver]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I bet you it doesn't catch on, because most people get it. 

First off, that's one hell of an assumption. The one person of colour who I have seen speak up about it so far has said he finds it abhorrent. Instead of assuming, you should try listening. Also black and brown people are individuals, there isn't a hive mind. Even if Tammy IS fine with it, that doesn't make it OK, I only said that we should listen to him. 

To compare your experiences of racial prejudice as a white man is utterly bizarre IMO. As if thousands of years of ongoing oppression against people of colour didn't happen. It's proper edgelord stuff.

As for highlighting racism or racial undertones within football making things worse, I don't know if you have been paying attention to what is going on lately? And has been going on for the entire time people of colour have been involved within football? Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, far from it. It festers. People need to speak up, highlight black voices, platform them. Listen to them. 

I like you Dave-R but you are wide of the mark here. 

Exactly, calling it out isn't whingeing, political correctness, it's necessary. 'Leaving it be' legitimises the racists and encourages them to carry on.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Fair enough Vive, but im not sure where we are going with all this " I see racism evetwhere".

For example is Black History Week not patronising?

Surely calling Birkir Thor is offensive to Marvel Fans?

Calling Elmo our Egyptian/Arab Pharoah and/or pointing out that he is a Muslim Right Back in reference to a Ramadan story would offend Arabs, Egyptians AND Muslims?

When do we stop referring to our players as "Boys", "Lads" or "Men", as this offends some people too.

As I stated over on FB, context is everything, people are constantly searching for something to be upset about, I could easily flip it to say there were PRAISING/CELEBRATING his blackness! You can turn it into anything you want, really.

Are police allowed to say "Suspect is a Black Male", if the suspect is in fact "A Black Male"? Or will they have to search for the proper tone and respectful shade before making a call? Chocolate colored? That will be offensive too though.

Stop the **** insanity!

For me personally, it is cringe worthy.

Do you think Tammy has lost sleep over this?

Again, at WORST, it is naive due to the climate.

I grew up with a load of  friends of different ethnicities, colours, religious beliefs, sexuality etc and there was alot of "Banter", dear god looking back if it was 2019 I should have committed suicide or had them all disgraced, shamed and arrested.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Mic09]

Does the song work well? Yes. Is it meant to offend? No.

Can it offend some people?

Yes, but then we need to agree it's used as an offence and the word "black" is somehow offensive. And if we are unhappy about offending people, then songs such as "referee is a wan***" or "f*** the Albion" shouldn't have much place in 2019.

[M_Afro]

The chant has caused offence. If something offends a group of people, then it is not ok. It’s all a bit embarrassing really. I’m sure most Villa fans know better.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

The chant has caused offence. If something offends a group of people, then it is not ok. It’s all a bit embarrassing really. I’m sure most Villa fans know better.

Who are the "Group" of people though?

As per my knowledge, a BLUES fan posted it and then set Stan Collymore off.

I haven't seen any bursts of outrage rife all over the internet.

Nobody would care at all if there was no social media.

I'm also quite annoyed that the "group" of people wouldn't have better things to worry about.

Edited May 13, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Dave-R]

14 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

The chant has caused offence. If something offends a group of people, then it is not ok. It’s all a bit embarrassing really. I’m sure most Villa fans know better.

Everything offends this day, isn't that the embarrassment.

I can't actually believe that this is even being debated to the point it has because it's all been made to look like it's racist and it wasn't like that at all.

You also have to take being in that place at the moment that song was sung into your minds. I doubt those people who sang meant anything by it in the ways those who are so hot mad over it are trying to turn it into. It was most likely used as a celebration because we went one goal ahead and it was a spare of the moment thought which all the fans had a moment with there no doubt heroe Tammy.

You can't label them racist unless you hear it from them day in day out and we do not know them on a personal level to make that judgement.

It's absoloute stupidness what's happening here and it should be just dropped period not brought out into the light.

Pretty sure that the video would have included much worse racial abuse if it was meant to offend anyone, it was a song and they just rephrased it to suit the wording.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dave-R

[lexicon]

I think you're missing the point Dave. I don't think anyone is saying that these people were racist or had any ill intent but it doesn't mean that what they sung was OK, because it wasn't. A sizable chunk of people from ethnic minorities do not like being singled out as being different. Calling someone 'Black (name)' differentiates them in that way and can make them feel uncomfortable and not a part of the group, when all they've tried to do is fit in their whole lives. It doesn't bother some, as JV has said, but if it does bother a lot of others, surely it's better not to do it?

[M_Afro]

35 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Everything offends this day, isn't that the embarrassment.

I can't actually believe that this is even being debated to the point it has because it's all been made to look like it's racist and it wasn't like that at all.

You also have to take being in that place at the moment that song was sung into your minds. I doubt those people who sang meant anything by it in the ways those who are so hot mad over it are trying to turn it into. It was most likely used as a celebration because we went one goal ahead and it was a spare of the moment thought which all the fans had a moment with there no doubt heroe Tammy.

You can't label them racist unless you hear it from them day in day out and we do not know them on a personal level to make that judgement.

It's absoloute stupidness what's happening here and it should be just dropped period not brought out into the light.

Pretty sure that the video would have included much worse racial abuse if it was meant to offend anyone, it was a song and they just rephrased it to suit the wording.

 

It is the use of the word “black” to describe Tammy that is offensive. We would not be talking about this if they had used a different adjective such as “big” but they didn’t. The sight of a load of drunk, white men singing that song is distasteful. If it hadn’t offended people then we wouldn’t be talking about it. I also truly believe that they would have known that it was crossing a line but proceeded to do it anyway.

There is an small undercurrent of racism that exists in our country and particularly throughout football. The amount of people on here who are willing to defend this behaviour is another example of a lack of understanding that the impact of such behaviour can have. It is sad. Our country is Great because of the multi cultural nature of it. This is a strength recognised by the majority of people but sadly, not by all. 

Just to be clear, I am not calling anybody on here racist and you are all entitled to your opinions but they differ to mine. I find the video very offensive.

[DJ_Villain]

The chant could always be ‘Tam-Tammy Abraham’... but to emphasise the idea he is a black man is just asking for trouble and always going to cause a stir...

 

No, it isn’t meant to cause offence and yes, he is black... but it’s the principle of it...  especially considering there has been a great deal of racism directed at footballers in the past few months anyway...

So many other ways to fill a single syllable of a chant without having to bring the colour of someone’s skin into it