Guest av1 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 22 hours ago, rodders0223 said: He is not fit enough. I thought that about the whole squad on Monday. Everyone of them were blowing in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Listening to The Debate and they're just going in on Anwar. Not a single mention of Mings' actions that led to the head push. They were actually praising him for how he handled it . What was he even doing getting into his face like that? He's not even the captain ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 56 minutes ago, av1 said: I thought that about the whole squad on Monday. Everyone of them were blowing in the second half. Our distance covered on Monday was the most we have done in any game since Smith took over. Probably something to do with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Listening to The Debate and they're just going in on Anwar. Not a single mention of Mings' actions that led to the head push. They were actually praising him for how he handled it . What was he even doing getting into his face like that? He's not even the captain ffs. I don't agree with how he went in on El Ghazi (not that it excuses the reaction at all), but your last sentence is a bit silly. Let's be honest, he is our captain in all but name - should the coaches be telling him it isn't his place to tell other players what to do and to take a step back?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said: I don't agree with how he went in on El Ghazi (not that it excuses the reaction at all), but your last sentence is a bit silly. Let's be honest, he is our captain in all but name - should the coaches be telling him it isn't his place to tell other players what to do and to take a step back?! It makes all the difference really. If it was Jack getting in his face like that he probably would have let it slide because he's the captain. Mings is just another member of the team just like him. He might have leadership qualities and be a rock in defence, but he had no place trying to reprimand his teammate like that. It's like if Ogbonna tried getting in Lanzini's face. Who's taking that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: It makes all the difference really. If it was Jack getting in his face like that he probably would have let it slide because he's the captain. Mings is just another member of the team just like him. He might have leadership qualities and be a rock in defence, but he had no place trying to reprimand his teammate like that. It's like if Ogbonna tried getting in Lanzini's face. Who's taking that? Completely disagree. I think Jack is captain because it motivates him to improve and he sets a fantastic example of constantly wanting to improve as a player. He clearly isn't a calming influence on the pitch though and I think Mings might as well be our 'on the pitch captain'. Bearing in mind Smith said he likes to rotate captains to promote leadership throughout the squad, does that mean last weeks captain has no right to say anything the week after simply because he isn't wearing an armband? We also aren't discussing whether or not it was El Ghazi or Grealish's man and whether AEG was the right person to have a go out, which is a different issue entirely. We're talking about whether he had a 'right' to say anything or not and I would never be comfortable with curbing players' leadership qualities due to a lack of title. Edit - in the same way, is Mings also out of order when he steers Jack away from referees when he's starting to lose his head as Jack is the captain? Edited September 18, 2019 by Sam-AVFC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said: Completely disagree. I think Jack is captain because it motivates him to improve and he sets a fantastic example of constantly wanting to improve as a player. He clearly isn't a calming influence on the pitch though and I think Mings might as well be our 'on the pitch captain'. Bearing in mind Smith said he likes to rotate captains to promote leadership throughout the squad, does that mean last weeks captain has no right to say anything the week after simply because he isn't wearing an armband? We also aren't discussing whether or not it was El Ghazi or Grealish's man and whether AEG was the right person to have a go out, which is a different issue entirely. We're talking about whether he had a 'right' to say anything or not and I would never be comfortable with curbing players' leadership qualities due to a lack of title. I'm not saying he should have been silent. But getting into his face was completely out of order. Only a captain or a coach would get away with doing something like that even though it's still wrong. It's the type of thing you do to an opposition player after a bad tackle, not one of your teammates who presumably made a mistake. But yeah as you allude to, it wasn't even El Ghazi's man. So not only was his approach completely wrong, he was getting at the wrong man. I bet he knew Noble wasn't Anwar's man too (why the hell would he be marking a central midfielder?). So many mistakes and wrongdoings on Mings' part leading up to that, but all anyone can talk about is the resulting headbutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Tbf @Keyblade I think we largely agree as I don't disagree at all that how he got in to his face was completely wrong. Not excusing it, but I do think it's just how he is rather than being particularly aggresive as a one off - I actually said to my housemate that whenever Mings celebrates with a team mate he seems to go forehead to forehead and scream in their face. AEG's 'headbut' was absurd, but I also think it was probably just a case of after Mings went forehead to forehead he was annoyed and pushing him away (rather than trying to nut him). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Tbf @Keyblade I think we largely agree as I don't disagree at all that how he got in to his face was completely wrong. Not excusing it, but I do think it's just how he is rather than being particularly aggresive as a one off - I actually said to my housemate that whenever Mings celebrates with a team mate he seems to go forehead to forehead and scream in their face. AEG's 'headbut' was absurd, but I also think it was probably just a case of after Mings went forehead to forehead he was annoyed and pushing him away (rather than trying to nut him). I agree. When celebrating though, he typically holds their head with his hands. You see it from captains all the time, and even Mings himself. Hold their head and try to gee/psych them up. This incident was way more aggressive than that, he was almost squaring up. And like you say, it was less of a headbutt but more AEG pushing his head away like "get out of my space". Not a good look, but it was so unnecessarily aggressive from Mings to begin with. I'm just annoyed with the antagonizing of AEG while Mings gets off scott free, and even praised for how he "handled" the situation lol. If he didn't already, I bet AEG feels like he's being picked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rodders0223 Posted September 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2019 Mings is the captain, we all know it. He is the first to give someone a rollocking, first to put his arms around someone who has made a mistake, first to encourage the team following a goal conceded. He might not have the armband but he is the captain. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 This is being made into a big deal because it was a boring 0-0 draw on a night when no other games were played. Would have barely attracted any attention if it had happened on a Saturday afternoon. Rewatching the incident I think Mings was right, but I understand why AEG reacted badly. Basically, as the ball goes over Taylor's head, AEG has plenty of time to get goalside of Noble, but he is caught ballwatching. When he sees the danger, he makes a lung-busting sprint into the box, but can't make up the ground. So from AEG's perspective he probably feels like he was putting in maximum effort physically tracking back (and I agree with him), but from Mings's perspective AEG wasn't paying enough attention. Hopefully when they watch it back on the video analysis, they'll be able to understand each other's perspectives and forget about it. I really don't think two players having a row in the heat of the moment (even with a little head nudge like that) is anything to worry about - unless they're both too proud to let it drop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) Meh. AEG was switched off in his defending, let his man slip past again and again. Kept ball watching. Mings got fed up with it and gave him a stern telling off. Over the top. And AEG responded to Mings over reaction. Both were wrong, but also in the right. They shook hands. And both of them will probably improve as a result of the whole scene. End of story. Edited September 18, 2019 by Skruff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, omariqy said: Our distance covered on Monday was the most we have done in any game since Smith took over. Probably something to do with it. Wouldn't have to work as hard if they didn't give it away so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspiration Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Keyblade said: It makes all the difference really. If it was Jack getting in his face like that he probably would have let it slide because he's the captain. Mings is just another member of the team just like him. He might have leadership qualities and be a rock in defence, but he had no place trying to reprimand his teammate like that. It's like if Ogbonna tried getting in Lanzini's face. Who's taking that? Not sure if serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Inspiration said: Not sure if serious Would you let someone who has no authority over you get in your face like that, for something you didn't do no less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspiration Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Just now, Keyblade said: Would you let someone who has no authority over you get in your face like that, for something you didn't do no less? Well, no. However to say our record signing(?) and rock of our team, key inspiration in our promotion and first CB we’ve had since Laursen who stops me shitting myself every time the ball goes remotely close to the box has no authority is the issue. And also the comparison was a poor choice. Not having someone with the balls or legitimate care for our performance to call out a player who isn’t up to scratch got us in the mess of the past 5 years. But yeah, get him to button it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Inspiration said: Well, no. However to say our record signing(?) and rock of our team, key inspiration in our promotion and first CB we’ve had since Laursen who stops me shitting myself every time the ball goes remotely close to the box has no authority is the issue. And also the comparison was a poor choice. Not having someone with the balls or legitimate care for our performance to call out a player who isn’t up to scratch got us in the mess of the past 5 years. But yeah, get him to button it None of that means shit to a player. AEG was at the club before Mings, was just as much a part of that promotion run, even scoring a famous goal at Wembley. You can care about the performance and even scold your teammate without getting into their face and squaring up to them. He had no place doing that, at all. Nobody does really, but there are a select few that might get away with it. Tyrone Mings who's been at the club for what, 6 months and doesn't wear the captain's armband certainly isn't one of them no matter how many "leadership qualities" he shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspiration Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: None of that means shit to a player. AEG was at the club before Mings, was just as much a part of that promotion run, even scoring a famous goal at Wembley. You can care about the performance and even scold your teammate without getting into their face and squaring up to them. He had no place doing that, at all. Nobody does really, but there are a select few that might get away with it. Tyrone Mings who's been at the club for what, 6 months and doesn't wear the captain's armband certainly isn't one of them no matter how many "leadership qualities" he shows. Just like who wears the captains armband doesn’t mean shit to a player in this day and age. I guess Richards and lescott could have given such bollockings way back when then since they wore the armband in that dreaded season. As much a part of the promotion run is debatable, I’d disagree personally but I guess if you watch it all back and squint you could make the argument. Ok, out of the current squad who are these select few you talk of that might get away with it who were on the pitch at that time, who also have the personality traits to call out other people’s dross? Please don’t say jack, classic leader by example, far from a vocal talisman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Inspiration said: Just like who wears the captains armband doesn’t mean shit to a player in this day and age. I guess Richards and lescott could have given such bollockings way back when then since they wore the armband in that dreaded season. As much a part of the promotion run is debatable, I’d disagree personally but I guess if you watch it all back and squint you could make the argument. Ok, out of the current squad who are these select few you talk of that might get away with it who were on the pitch at that time, who also have the personality traits to call out other people’s dross? Please don’t say jack, classic leader by example, far from a vocal talisman There's really nothing debatable about our promotion run. AEG was crucial to it, just as Mings was. If you need to squint to see that he scored one of our most important goals in recent history at Wembley then you must have x-ray vision. As for the bolded, maybe Jack Grealish. It's all speculation, but you'd imagine the delegated captain and Mr. Aston Villa might get that extra bit of deference another player might not. Also like I said, it doesn't mean Mings should have been silent...he just shouldn't have got in his face like that, the one part of all of this you seem to be ignoring. It's not black or white; don't say anything or get into the player's face like you're about to square up. Just use your words. Or have less aggressive body language, whatever. The way he handled it was very poor. If he did it to an opposition player it would have been a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspiration Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: There's really nothing debatable about our promotion run. AEG was crucial to it, just as Mings was. If you need to squint to see that he scored one of our most important goals in recent history at Wembley then you must have x-ray vision. As for the bolded, maybe Jack Grealish. It's all speculation, but you'd imagine the delegated captain and Mr. Aston Villa might get that extra bit of deference another player might not. Also like I said, it doesn't mean Mings should have been silent...he just shouldn't have got in his face like that, the one part of all of this you seem to be ignoring. It's not black or white; don't say anything or get into the player's face like you're about to square up. Just use your words. Or have less aggressive body language, whatever. The way he handled it was very poor. If he did it to an opposition player it would have been a fight. It’s debatable saying he was just as crucial, because, well... he wasn’t. So do you believe Mr Aston Villa Jack Grealish has the personality traits to call out others for being shit? I personally don’t and haven’t seen that once to date which is why I said “don’t say jack”. I personally feel anwar shouldn’t be such a cupcake but hey ho, each to their own. just to confirm my initial post had the issue of you using the comparison of ogbonna for mings, hence It was in bold. Horrendous example. The rest is just conjecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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