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John McGinn


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14 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

For the right price it wouldn't be a disaster. 

i wouldn't say it would be a disaster, but we are trying to build something here and selling a first team regular doesn't send a great message IMO. he's an influential member of the dressing room and i don't think it would be a wise decision unless we're talking stupid money.

it's a non starter anyway. the 'right price' would probably be upwards of 50m and i don't see utd paying that

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5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

what 'objective stats' is he the highest rated out of interest? passing accuracy % for example he is the lowest rated of the CMs.

not trying to be difficult here. he's had a good season, but not spectacular IMO

Through balls, keypasses, expected assists. dribbles, fouls won

Defensively he is the one who fouls the most, but he is also one of the few who realises its better to take the foul (and the card) than let the opponent get past. (Vs United I was so happy when I saw Chuk tried to do it, somehow not managing it and won the ball, but still tried).

 

Mcginn has his flaws, but if we are to set on places to improve our team we should not look to sell Mcginn unless we get some ridiculous offer. 

 

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43 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i'd say a fair few would debate that. he's had a good season, sure, but wouldn't say he's been the standout.

FYI - the below are the villatalk MOTM awards per player for league games this season. there have been good performances from all players this season and not really sure anyone has particularly stood out and the MOTM awards being shared around backs that up.

bailey x2

ramsey x2

ghaz

mcginn x3

emi x4

cash

mings

marv x2

luiz x2

buendia x2

I'd also think this is substantially underrating Luiz, Mings and Buendia. Who have probably been our 3/4 of our best players in about half of our games. 

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I have no issues with selling mcginn. Realistically now is the time to sell he'll be 28 next season and at the peak of his value. We aren't sure whether he's good enough for the next step for the club. And if we look at our youth team we've got JJ, Chukwuemeka, Bogarde, Iroegbunam, Raikhy and Aaron Ramsey who are all midfielders.

Next season ideally Chukwuemeka is competing for a starting spot and Aaron ramsey is in the position where he will be coming off the bench 10-15 times a season. The others might need some more time to mature, but they are there as well. And with 50 million we can certainly bring in an upgrade on mcginn.

He does the flashy things right, but his impatience often hurts us, his short passing is awful, he's a massive diver, he doesn't track back or press with the team. He takes ridiculous shots that have little chance to go on. Taking 35-40 yard shots when he's scored 2 in 3.5 seasons for us. He's greedy as all hell and he is no better than others we have in midfield. If we can get 50-70 million for him we should snap their arms off and laugh all the way to the bank. 

Edited by MotoMkali
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2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I'd also think this is substantially underrating Luiz, Mings and Buendia. Who have probably been our 3/4 of our best players in about half of our games. 

i agree with you, if there was a player of the season vote right now, i'd expect the winner to come from one of the 3 you mentioned. they've been the most consistent. luiz would probably get my vote...honourable mentions to ramsey and marv too. i'd say mcginn actually has been the poorer of the midfielders this season, but he's been decent enough.

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20 minutes ago, MentalM said:

Through balls, keypasses, expected assists. dribbles, fouls won

Defensively he is the one who fouls the most, but he is also one of the few who realises its better to take the foul (and the card) than let the opponent get past. (Vs United I was so happy when I saw Chuk tried to do it, somehow not managing it and won the ball, but still tried).

 

Mcginn has his flaws, but if we are to set on places to improve our team we should not look to sell Mcginn unless we get some ridiculous offer. 

 

There is at least 1 time a game when mcginn makes a stupid foul which ruins an attack we are about to win the ball back on the edge of the area and mcginn just hacks them from behind or body slams them. When Douglas Luiz is directly in front of the ball carrier.

He doesn't track back, his key passes are high this season as are his through balls because a lot goes through him which I don't think should be the case. We have played many games without a creative fulcrum aside from buendia which results in lots of mcginn. Which is in large part why our attack is so shite this season. 

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3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I have no issues with selling mcginn. Realistically now is the time to sell he'll be 28 next season and at the peak of his value. We aren't sure whether he's good enough for the next step for the club. And if we look at our youth team we've got JJ, Chukwuemeka, Bogarde, Iroegbunam, Raikhy and Aaron Ramsey who are all midfielders.

Next season ideally Chukwuemeka is competing for a starting spot and Aaron ramsey is in the position where he will be coming off the bench 10-15 times a season. The others might need some more time to mature, but they are there as well. And with 50 million we can certainly bring in an upgrade on mcginn.

He does the flashy things right, but his impatience often hurts us, his short passing is awful, he's a massive diver, he doesn't track back or press with the team. He takes ridiculous shots that have little chance to go on. Taking 35-40 yard shots when he's scored 2 in 3.5 seasons for us. He's greedy as all hell and he is no better than others we have in midfield. If we can get 50-70 million for him we should snap their arms off and laugh all the way to the bank. 

50m we could go off and buy bissouma who is an upgrade just off the top of my head

last summer i said we should have sold el ghazi as his stock never was going to be as high. the same could be argued for mcginn. but i don't see us getting 50m anyway and i wouldn't sell for less

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1 hour ago, lexicon said:

They can also drag you down if they're simply not good enough as they're a weak link in the team.

McGinn, for me, is clearly one of the weakest members of the first team and is moving towards being a squad rotation option. I can't see a team putting in a bid that'd really tempt us as I don't think they'd see the value in it but I'd snatch someone's hand off at say 35m.

 

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1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

50m we could go off and buy bissouma who is an upgrade just off the top of my head

last summer i said we should have sold el ghazi as his stock never was going to be as high. the same could be argued for mcginn. but i don't see us getting 50m anyway and i wouldn't sell for less

I would sell for 30 million probably. 35-40 almost definitely. Anymore I'd drive him there myself. If I could actually drive. 

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4 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i agree with you, if there was a player of the season vote right now, i'd expect the winner to come from one of the 3 you mentioned. they've been the most consistent. luiz would probably get my vote...honourable mentions to ramsey and marv too. i'd say mcginn actually has been the poorer of the midfielders this season, but he's been decent enough.

Even if he was better than ramsey (which I'm not sure he is). We shouldn't start mcginn over ramsey anyway because Ramsey's development is how we get to that next stage as a club. He's really beginning to boss games and his production is very similar to mcginns. I actually think he's much better in interplay and dribbling (though he often attempts to beat 1 too many men at the minute). If he can develop some long range passing acumen then he's going to be a special player.

I also think this will be the case next season with Chukwuemeka. And at that point unless you are that much better than them you shouldn't be starting over our future if it is only going to give us 1-2 points more over the course of the season. 

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1 hour ago, lexicon said:

They can also drag you down if they're simply not good enough as they're a weak link in the team.

McGinn, for me, is clearly one of the weakest members of the first team and is moving towards being a squad rotation option. I can't see a team putting in a bid that'd really tempt us as I don't think they'd see the value in it but I'd snatch someone's hand off at say 35m.

Agreed and even if he wasn't Luiz has been a class above him this season. And we've got ramsey and Chukwuemeka developing. Ramsey is really going to be a guaranteed starter all season when fit I think now. And chuk should be in contention for many starts next season. And again we really shouldn't be sacrificing Luiz for that.

So it becomes us having Sanson, Chuk, Mcginn for that rcm role. And nakamba and Sanson for that cdm role. And as we aren't going to sell chuk. I think it's fair to say we have a player who is surplus to requirements and one of them will net us a big wad of cash and the other may be out for the season. 

Edited by MotoMkali
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8 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

I for one would be gutted if we sold him. I think he’s brilliant and would be gutted to watch him pull on a United shirt and celebrate with United fans.

I think luckily for us our owners ambition has likely matched SJMG’s because I think he sits in the bracket where Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool probably wouldn’t bid for him, but other teams who would are likely to be roughly where we are aiming in the next couple of years probably couldn’t afford his valuation. So I suppose what I’m saying, (with the possible exception of Man Utd) the teams that could afford him probs wouldn’t want him, and he wouldn’t want to go to the ones that would want him.

 

Edited by alreadyexists
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For the right price, I think we can sell and improve.
He's going to cost the best part of £60m and if you go and get Bissouma for that (who is a better player), it's profit and an improvement. 

This is different to the Grealish situation. He was unique and there was no way we were going to be able to replace him. McGinn can be replaced either by signing someone using all of the money (Bissouma/Gallagher etc.) or buy signing 2 players for 30m with good scouting.

We shouldn't be worried when teams come after our better players if they're tied to decent contracts. The worst case scenario is we lose them and we get a shit load of cash in return. Liverpool and Leicester have sold their best players in recent times and improved. If we're a well run club like we all claim we are, we should be able to sell McGinn and improve. 

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McGinn was our Player of The Year ahead of Grealish and Abraham and has been pivotal in seeing us compete at this level since that promotion season. 

I would be looking to see that we keep him, and if a move becomes inevitable, that we don't undersell ourselves by looking at the fee paid as any kind of indicator for what hes actually worth to this club.

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1 hour ago, MentalM said:

If we look at all objective stats he is our highest rated player by quite a clear margin.

I am not saying Mcginn has been a god this season, but he has quite clearly been our best player so far. Hopefully that changes and we dont need anyone to standout.

Just baffled that the scottish player of the year isnt deemed good enough by some of our fanbase when he has been one of the few who at least performed above average until now. 

If we're looking at our midfielders:

Goals - No - Both he and Ramsey have 3, though JR has higher goals per minute.
Assists - No - Luiz has 3
Pass Completion - No - One of the lowest
Progressive Passes - Yes
Key Passes - No but a very close 2nd
Shot Creating Actions - Yes, but very marginally, a 0.08 difference with Luiz
Tackles - No 
Pressures - No - way down the list
Blocks - No - way down the list
Interceptions - No - way down the list
Clearances - No - 3rd
Successful Dribbles - Technically not as Carney is ahead but CC's number of minutes is probably too low as a sample size right now, so we'll give it to him
Carries - No
Total distance carried - No
Progressive distance carried - No

Not sure which figures you mean or where you're getting your numbers from tbh.

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3 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Hear Hear. Probably our best purchase over the last 4 years and such an understated influence on the dressing room. He's far more integral than people realise. 

Didn't miss him against Man Utd tbf.

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