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John McGinn


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On 15/06/2021 at 07:21, DaveAV1 said:

A fit and on form SJM is a great asset. I think he’ll play a few less games moving forward as the squad gains quality in depth and that will help him. In fact I believe we will be in a better position to rotate most of the players next year to the benefit of them all and the team as a whole. The increase in quality should also bring out the best in all the existing players. 

I recognise your criticisms/concerns for SJM but hope he’ll find his next level and continue his growth with the squad. At times his long range passing is brilliant, with better movement around him it should get more consistent. There not much quality around him in The Scotland team. 

Agreed.

 

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2 hours ago, sidcow said:

My hope is that McGinn runs absolute rings around Maguire when he inevitably starts ahead of Mings tomorrow. 

 

Same. A nice 5-3 England win thriller with Maguire looking suitably rubbish would do nicely. Assuming Southgate plays him, as he seems so desperate to do. "The only decision is whether he is fit enough to start". How about, does he deserve to start having not kicked a ball in a competitive game for over a month when his replacement was the best of our two centre backs... Muppet. 

As for McGinn, if Grealish plays (ha!), I just hope he doesn't take him out  can see a freak accident waiting to happen... 

Edited by MrBlack
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I think Smith will play alot more 4-3-3 next season. With the two of the three in midfield capable of bombing forward and making runs into the box. If we play that way I could see Mcginn and Sanson playing in those roles with Luiz/new signing (JWP) slightly behind them. If we use that formation, Mcginn will be one of the first names on the teamsheet. 

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I was gonna post this into the midfield three thread but apparently its been buried deep somewhere so I'll just post it here since Mcginn's passing in particular has been made an issue.

How important is passing accuracy in midfield really? Here's a list of all our central midfielders passing accuracy last season in ascending order.

Sanson(Ligue 1)-75.7%

Mcginn-77.3%

Luiz-84.8%

Ramsey-85.5%

Nakamba-85.7%

I'm not the first person to have brought this up, but it seems quite unintuitive at first how Nakamba had the highest passing accuracy of all our central midfielders. Until you realize that Nakamba's passes are all very low risk. I will use total progressive passing distance per 90 to demonstrate although there are also various other stats that could be used instead to highlight this.

Ramsey-103.08 yards

Nakamba-114.15 yards

Sanson(Ligue 1)-121.71 yards

Luiz-183.50 yards

Mcginn-208.27 yards

Now Mcginn is at the top of the list. The point I'm trying to make is this. Is general passing accuracy a meaningless statistic? What's more important to a team, the ability to keep possession or the ability to keep useful possession because it seems like these two things are inversely correlated with each other. 

Its not just a quirk with our team too. Gini Wijnaldum has one of the highest passing accuracies of all central midfielders, but the amount of his passes that actually translate to chances created is pathetically low. Kevin de Bruyne is undoubtedly a great passer and chance creator but his general passing accuracy is mediocre at best.

I know its frustrating to see Mcginn keep losing the ball with his passing and he does lose the ball a lot. But does it really matter if his passing is actually still effective? Sure he loses the ball more often but he also progresses the ball more, he creates chances more and I feel like in passing this should be what matters more. Not aimless water carrying. On a more general note, the answer to this question will help me to evaluate the passing abilities of players better, because its always bugged me how passing accuracy and progressive passing/chance creation seem inversely correlated and I'm not sure which stat to give more weight to.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I was gonna post this into the midfield three thread but apparently its been buried deep somewhere so I'll just post it here since Mcginn's passing in particular has been made an issue.

How important is passing accuracy in midfield really? Here's a list of all our central midfielders passing accuracy last season in ascending order.

Sanson(Ligue 1)-75.7%

Mcginn-77.3%

Luiz-84.8%

Ramsey-85.5%

Nakamba-85.7%

I'm not the first person to have brought this up, but it seems quite unintuitive at first how Nakamba had the highest passing accuracy of all our central midfielders. Until you realize that Nakamba's passes are all very low risk. I will use total progressive passing distance per 90 to demonstrate although there are also various other stats that could be used instead to highlight this.

Ramsey-103.08 yards

Nakamba-114.15 yards

Sanson(Ligue 1)-121.71 yards

Luiz-183.50 yards

Mcginn-208.27 yards

Now Mcginn is at the top of the list. The point I'm trying to make is this. Is general passing accuracy a meaningless statistic? What's more important to a team, the ability to keep possession or the ability to keep useful possession because it seems like these two things are inversely correlated with each other. 

Its not just a quirk with our team too. Gini Wijnaldum has one of the highest passing accuracies of all central midfielders, but the amount of his passes that actually translate to chances created is pathetically low. Kevin de Bruyne is undoubtedly a great passer and chance creator but his general passing accuracy is mediocre at best.

I know its frustrating to see Mcginn keep losing the ball with his passing and he does lose the ball a lot. But does it really matter if his passing is actually still effective? Sure he loses the ball more often but he also progresses the ball more, he creates chances more and I feel like in passing this should be what matters more. Not aimless water carrying. On a more general note, the answer to this question will help me to evaluate the passing abilities of players better, because its always bugged me how passing accuracy and progressive passing/chance creation seem inversely correlated and I'm not sure which stat to give more weight to.

 

 

 

This is why stats tell, at best, half a story. To judge a player properly you have to watch them over a prolonged period, it's the only way. 

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43 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I was gonna post this into the midfield three thread but apparently its been buried deep somewhere so I'll just post it here since Mcginn's passing in particular has been made an issue.

How important is passing accuracy in midfield really? Here's a list of all our central midfielders passing accuracy last season in ascending order.

Sanson(Ligue 1)-75.7%

Mcginn-77.3%

Luiz-84.8%

Ramsey-85.5%

Nakamba-85.7%

I'm not the first person to have brought this up, but it seems quite unintuitive at first how Nakamba had the highest passing accuracy of all our central midfielders. Until you realize that Nakamba's passes are all very low risk. I will use total progressive passing distance per 90 to demonstrate although there are also various other stats that could be used instead to highlight this.

Ramsey-103.08 yards

Nakamba-114.15 yards

Sanson(Ligue 1)-121.71 yards

Luiz-183.50 yards

Mcginn-208.27 yards

Now Mcginn is at the top of the list. The point I'm trying to make is this. Is general passing accuracy a meaningless statistic? What's more important to a team, the ability to keep possession or the ability to keep useful possession because it seems like these two things are inversely correlated with each other. 

Its not just a quirk with our team too. Gini Wijnaldum has one of the highest passing accuracies of all central midfielders, but the amount of his passes that actually translate to chances created is pathetically low. Kevin de Bruyne is undoubtedly a great passer and chance creator but his general passing accuracy is mediocre at best.

I know its frustrating to see Mcginn keep losing the ball with his passing and he does lose the ball a lot. But does it really matter if his passing is actually still effective? Sure he loses the ball more often but he also progresses the ball more, he creates chances more and I feel like in passing this should be what matters more. Not aimless water carrying. On a more general note, the answer to this question will help me to evaluate the passing abilities of players better, because its always bugged me how passing accuracy and progressive passing/chance creation seem inversely correlated and I'm not sure which stat to give more weight to.

 

 

 

Also think McGinn is the only one of those midfielders barring Sanson ( I haven’t see enough of him) that actually attempts to switch play, attempting a long range pass across field is certainly going to lower passing accuracy stats. There’s so much more to his game he starts the press and gets up the pitch on counter attacks, how many fast breaks have we seen following McGinn winning the ball followed by a “ass move”  sometimes he gets excited and takes a shot instead of slipping another player in but his positives far outweigh the negatives .

Edited by gwi1890
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2 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Kevin de Bruyne is undoubtedly a great passer and chance creator but his general passing accuracy is mediocre at best.

That there is your answer. Bruno Fernandez is another - to create chances you take risks. Safe passes to team mates in your own half good idea. Safe passes to your team mates in the oppo half - well of course, but to create an opening you've either got to take a risk in passing, or in running with the ball.

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