John McGinn

[TheStagMan]

12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

What criticism has been 'laughable'?

 

Well, on the previous page alone....

Yep, wouldn't be making a significant difference IMO, he has not stepped up to this level.

Dissapointing he didn't kick on much this year. I also hate the amount of popshots he takes from outside the area

I don't know how many teams midfield he gets into

[TheStagMan]

11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

This honestly reads like you're hyperventilating. 

Nobody is saying we should sell him. Relax. 

Nope, not hyperventilating. You know, it is possible to read a stupid post about McGinn and call it out for its stupidity without even raising one's pulse, let alone hyperventilating. More shaking my head and chuckling.

 

If you want hyperventilation, head over to the transfer window thread and ask about a striker. 

 

[TheStagMan]

11 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I'm suggesting, as is crystal clear from my post, that he hasn't taken to this level that well, that he has quality and fitness issues that he needs to iron out and improve on. I'm suggesting nothing more or nothing less than this. The fact that you jump to the idea that I'm saying he should be sold is completely down to your total lack of comprehension. 

Oh dear. You chuck lack of comprehension my way, but you need to realise that my comment about him being sold was sarchasm. Anyone with functioning eyes and a brain could have worked that out. Never mind eh?

 

You didn't say he needed to iron out and improve on his issues. You said that basically he is not good enough, and then added "end of". Hardly a supportive conclusion as to how he can improve and help Villa. 

 

So, any suggestions on what should happen with him, or do you just like to moan about players not being good enough? That's fine by the way, it's your perogative. Just like it is mine to disagree. 

By the way, you debunking him playing with an injury a couple of posts back - he mentions it himself on twitter (it is linked 3 or so pages back in this thread). Don't let that get in the way though. Like I said before, I expect him to come back from his injury and be firing again. Time will tell which of us is right I guess.

 

 

[Sulberto21]

He has imo proven that he’s got the quality to play in the premier league. First game he got out muscled a few times but his strength has improved. Can’t wait for him to come back. 

[Bugzy1991]

21 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

 

Well, on the previous page alone....

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's laughable about saying he didn't kick on as much as we all liked and hoped? 

[TheStagMan]

Just now, Bugzy1991 said:

What's laughable about saying he didn't kick on as much as we all liked and hoped? 

Because in the first half dozen games, he kicked on just fine, and then the performance drop coincided with carrying an injury which then took him out for a couple of months.  During which time we have looked much much worse. Even when he was playing "badly" we looked much better. People expect him to have a MOTM performance in each and every game because of how well he did last year at a lower level. Its how we destroy players on here. 

 

[HanoiVillan]

I think this is a very peculiar definition of 'laughable', here used just to mean 'an opinion I marginally disagree with'. Nobody has said he's terrible, or that he should be sold, or even that we won't be better when he returns; on the other hand, nobody is disputing that after a few good performances at the beginning of the season he then turned in a bunch of much worse performances. The entire disagreement is over whether that shows he 'hasn't taken to this level', and I don't see why disagreeing about that is causing people to laugh and scoff.

[A'Villan]

I would actually side with @TheStagMan and say that any suggestion of McGinn not proving himself at this level yet are quite silly, and if you find that amusing, laughable even.

McGinn already has 4 MOTM (Grealish has 3), even in losing sides. He'd reach double digits for goals scored or assisted, had he not got injured

He missess a spot in whoscored's team of the season so far by a rating of 0.3 to Ndidi, and they have him ranked as the 24th (Abraham 23rd) best of any player in the league.

He started very well, and has remained influential throughout, to I'd say, two games prior to his injury, even then he was never a liability, just noticeably not as imposing.

In roughly the first 5 or so mayches, McGinn and Grealish both were league leaders in most fouled, dribbles, key passes, and McGinn outdid Grealish by adding shots pg to his name.

The guy's a beast and an example of why you don't need to be a young prodigy to set the world alight. Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. You can't sleep on SJM,

Some of the goals he scored, and a few that narrowly missed in the championship, were without a doubt, world class, the English second division takes nothing from that.

But yeah, this season? Proven himself? Are you kidding me? He got linked to Manchester United before the recent Grealish ones came about.

That might've bee hot air from the media, but even if it was then it was their attempt at recognising a capable player had arrived in the league.

Edited January 17, 2020 by A'Villan

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I think this is a very peculiar definition of 'laughable', here used just to mean 'an opinion I marginally disagree with'. Nobody has said he's terrible, or that he should be sold, or even that we won't be better when he returns; on the other hand, nobody is disputing that after a few good performances at the beginning of the season he then turned in a bunch of much worse performances. The entire disagreement is over whether that shows he 'hasn't taken to this level', and I don't see why disagreeing about that is causing people to laugh and scoff.

I mean, they literally have though haven't they?

Not the sold bit. 

But people have said he's failed to step up to this level, which I couldn't disagree with more
And that he wouldn't have made an impact even if he'd been playing, which would suggest we won't be better when he returns.

[MaVilla]

When is he expected back roughly?

[Chindie]

McGinn hasn't blown the league away by any means, and certainly hasn't shone like he did in the Championship often, but then nobody has besides Jack and Mings. But he's still be one of our better players and we're far weaker without him.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I mean, they literally have though haven't they?

Not the sold bit. 

But people have said he's failed to step up to this level, which I couldn't disagree with more
And that he wouldn't have made an impact even if he'd been playing, which would suggest we won't be better when he returns.

Okay, I've read back through the thread, and the one poster who said that it wouldn't make a difference if he was playing was Dr P. I'm pretty confident he meant 'if he was playing as he was before the injury', rather than 'if he was playing at his best', but it's also possible I've developed a mental filter to make Dr P's posts 50% less negative when I read them 

Otherwise, everybody has said that we'll be better off when he gets back. Nobody said anything close to 'he's terrible' either. 

5 hours ago, A'Villan said:

McGinn already has 4 MOTM (Grealish has 3), even in losing sides.

I don't know where these figures have come from, but the idea that McGinn has been our best player more often than Grealish has this season really is 'laughable'. 

5 hours ago, A'Villan said:

But yeah, this season? Proven himself? Are you kidding me? He got linked to Manchester United before the recent Grealish ones came about.

That might've bee hot air from the media, but even if it was then it was their attempt at recognising a capable player had arrived in the league.

To be fair, he was linked during the summer and in the first few games of the season when he was playing well and the transfer window was still open. If he had continued playing at his November level throughout December and into this month, he would not be being linked with £50m moves to Man Utd. 

I doubt the player himself is as sanguine about his performances as you seem to be. My impression of McGinn is that he sets very high standards for himself - it's part of what I like about him - and I think he will know that he had gone very off the boil before this injury. To my mind, whether he can be considered to have 'stepped up to this level' will be determined by how he plays during the run in. If he's turning in a few performances like we saw in August and September, then absolutely he will have done, and we'll probably be back to Man Utd transfer rumours again. If he plays like he was before his injury, then he won't have stepped up IMO. I could go through every squad in the Championship and find a dozen or more players who have managed a handful of really good Premier League performances - to have 'stepped up' requires some consistency as I see it. 

[A'Villan]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Okay, I've read back through the thread, and the one poster who said that it wouldn't make a difference if he was playing was Dr P. I'm pretty confident he meant 'if he was playing as he was before the injury', rather than 'if he was playing at his best', but it's also possible I've developed a mental filter to make Dr P's posts 50% less negative when I read them 

Otherwise, everybody has said that we'll be better off when he gets back. Nobody said anything close to 'he's terrible' either. 

I don't know where these figures have come from, but the idea that McGinn has been our best player more often than Grealish has this season really is 'laughable'. 

To be fair, he was linked during the summer and in the first few games of the season when he was playing well and the transfer window was still open. If he had continued playing at his November level throughout December and into this month, he would not be being linked with £50m moves to Man Utd. 

I doubt the player himself is as sanguine about his performances as you seem to be. My impression of McGinn is that he sets very high standards for himself - it's part of what I like about him - and I think he will know that he had gone very off the boil before this injury. To my mind, whether he can be considered to have 'stepped up to this level' will be determined by how he plays during the run in. If he's turning in a few performances like we saw in August and September, then absolutely he will have done, and we'll probably be back to Man Utd transfer rumours again. If he plays like he was before his injury, then he won't have stepped up IMO. I could go through every squad in the Championship and find a dozen or more players who have managed a handful of really good Premier League performances - to have 'stepped up' requires some consistency as I see it. 

I simply reported that he has been named as whoscored.com's MOTM once more than Grealish, that doesn't suggest he has been better than Grealish overall this season.

But I can tell you that he was matching Grealish in every department I mentioned, as well as being from memory top 5 in the league for shots per game, which Grealish wasn't.

Check it for yourself, both were more involved in attacking play of consequence than De Bruyne was mustering for City at this seasons beginning.

I agree with you about McGinn demanding a lot of himself, that's how we get the output from him that we do. But to suggest he was very off the boil is a stretch, in my view.

He had two games preceding his early injury and substitution where he was average, not mediocre, not a liability, just not as influential as he can be.

Throw in the odd game here and there over the season where he wasn't the highlight of the game, and weigh that against the games where he's been a pivotal cog for us.

I think it's pretty safe to say he is bedding into this level with ease. You don't need to, and coaches don't look for players who have to attempt a highlight reel at every attempt.

They want the graft, tenacity and pressure in defensive duties, and they want adequate ability and presence of mind to create the best and easiest chances possible on the ball.

Throw in tactical competence required to follow game plans to success, and the craftiness to improvise in moments where the game is in free flow and you have a solid player.

McGinn possesses all these qualities. Not always successful in it, but you can be sure he is a driving force to give us an edge and a chance in any and every contest.

That alone is invaluable as it asks questions of opponents and creates a contest, sure he's not as talented as Grealish, and I never suggested he was.

I tell you what though, through sheer determination he can produce performances that might not be as aesthetic as Jack's, but are equally worthy of note.

 

 

[It's Your Round]

SJM is class, we’ve suffered without him and will be much, much better off when he returns. 

[Bugzy1991]

Doesn't whoscored ratings have mustafi down as one of the best defenders in the world?

Edited January 17, 2020 by Bugzy1991

[Stevo985]

43 minutes ago, Bugzy1991 said:

Doesn't whoscored ratings have mustafi down as one of the best defenders in the world?

No it doesn't appear so.

WhoScored have him as a 6.5 this season in the premier league. Wouldn't even get him close to the top 300 players in the world this season.

Even if you add Eruopa League in it only buts him up to 6.86 which is still outside the top 300

[Bugzy1991]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

No it doesn't appear so.

WhoScored have him as a 6.5 this season in the premier league. Wouldn't even get him close to the top 300 players in the world this season.

Even if you add Eruopa League in it only buts him up to 6.86 which is still outside the top 300

Nice sampling. 

 

Over the decade I just read he's 7.22. 

Kompany is 7.21 

[Stevo985]

47 minutes ago, Bugzy1991 said:

Nice sampling. 

 

Over the decade I just read he's 7.22. 

Kompany is 7.21 

Well you were talking present tense so I looked at the current season. I’m not sure what’s wrong with that. 
 

I can’t find where they rank them over the decade so I’ll take your word for it

[alreadyexists]

As in the Arsenal player Mustafi? He’s only 27, so 10 years ago he was 17 at Everton and not even starting or making the squad. Only started playing regularly for Sampdoria in 2013/14 and then for Valencia... so any ten year figure wouldn’t be very accurate as it would extrapolate 6/7 years of figures over the entire 10 years (also only played 3 times season).

Why are we talking about Mustafi anyway?

[Bugzy1991]

Apps over the decade for prem. Don't know why you're looking into It so hard. 

 

To show how silly whoscored ratings are. That he's rated better than kompany therefore one of the best defenders in the prem and world. Whoscored rating are too simplistic. We're talking about whoscored ratings and giving a prime example how they're often way off. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Bugzy1991