sexbelowsound Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, BOF said: Who is the current goat? GSP? Fedor? Silva? Great question without any possible answer in my opinion. Great fighters who fight in completely different ways with differing careers. I'd say Silva later on in his career was the most untouchable but his career has fizzled out. GSP went out at the very top, even if his win over Big Rig was questionable. Fedor never fighting in the UFC taints his record as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2016 See it also has to be taken into account is ufc purely a results driven game or does style and showmanship count? Personally I think it does, its an entertainment business to some extent. Which then puts Silva into a class of his own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2016 ...and what does mighty mouse have to do to be considered too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 8 hours ago, Chindie said: McGregor won't fight Woodley. He fought Diaz at welterweight and didn't look as good, and Diaz isn't Woodley and Diaz is of a style that suits McGregor more than Woodley, who is first and foremost a wrestler. But most of all that fight does nothing for anyone. McGregor has everything to lose and the tickets won't be a big enough draw because Woodley isn't a bank name. Alvarez isn't either but McGregor had much to gain - Eddie is beatable and it let's him make history. Woodley is a different beast. I think your right as it's a dangerous fight for mcgregor, he could get humiliated and UFC don't want that as he is their biggest name and prized asset. They may go for a Diaz mcgregor 3 as it stands 1-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Woodley isn't going to humiliate McGregor but at the same time I don't think its a fight the UFC would want him to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted November 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2016 7 hours ago, BOF said: It's a pub conversation. It's all about opinions. I'm interested in the discussion and why people think the way they think, rather than trying to focus on who is right - when no-one can be categorically right. I have Silva on top, for reasons mentioned. But the omission in the discussion is what he did to the, at the time, juiced to the gills, Light heavyweight Stephan Bonnar. A tough, skilful and experienced fighter in his own right. The clowning of Griffin was spectacular, but what he did to Bonnar was out of this world. Gifs are just a sample, the fight was like watching the Matrix And the elbow on Fryklund in Cagerage, my god. Who does that?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 14, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2016 Yeah, Silva is the GOAT for me. He tarnishes it a bit by basically going on too long and making errors, but at his prime, which went on forever, he's the greatest. Brilliant at everything. Ridiculous striking, great ground game, power, absurd speed, flexibility, immense show boat skill... He was excellent for a very long time. Fedor will forever have not going to the UFC against him, GSP has questions about a few matches that could have gone either way, and then you star to get into the names that probably wouldn't be in this conversation if they debuted today rather than 20 years ago. There would be an argument that Jones should be in contention but he's sullied himself so much its difficult to raise the point, as good as he is (even if a lot of that is down to his genetic freak nature, probably wouldn't be as good if his arms and legs were normal sized). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 14, 2016 58 minutes ago, Chindie said: probably wouldn't be as good if his arms and legs were normal sized). That's like saying Phelps wouldn't be as fast if he didn't have feet like flippers. While it's true, the fact is he does. Dunno if you guys read the article on the previous page. It puts the case for Fedor despite no UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 14 hours ago, sexbelowsound said: Woodley isn't going to humiliate McGregor but at the same time I don't think its a fight the UFC would want him to take. i think he would he looks a lot bigger than him and if he gets mcgregor on the floor its game over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2016 10 hours ago, BOF said: Dunno if you guys read the article on the previous page. It puts the case for Fedor despite no UFC. I think Silva takes it purely on showmanship and creativity, however Fedor is 2nd, and both are a long way in front of the rest. Him not being in the ufc affects him more from the fact that conversations like this are led from ufc based discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 15, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, Nigel said: I think Silva takes it purely on showmanship and creativity, however Fedor is 2nd, and both are a long way in front of the rest. Him not being in the ufc affects him more from the fact that conversations like this are led from ufc based discussions. He'll also eventually (not yet...) be affected by being from a time when those commenting haven't seen him. So he becomes the 'Pele' or the 'Puskas'. Included merely by obligation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted November 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, BOF said: He'll also eventually (not yet...) be affected by being from a time when those commenting haven't seen him. So he becomes the 'Pele' or the 'Puskas'. Included merely by obligation. Absolutely. It also has to be considered actually who were the leading lights in the heavyweight division at the time Dana was trying to get him over. To say he wouldn't have beaten the likes of Lesnar (Champion at the time) is stretching it a bit. He had already beaten the likes of Arvolski and Big Nog, there were not really a lot of other contenders there. Was it really that much of an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 15, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2016 Just now, Nigel said: Absolutely. It also has to be considered actually who were the leading lights in the heavyweight division at the time Dana was trying to get him over. To say he wouldn't have beaten the likes of Lesnar (Champion at the time) is stretching it a bit. He had already beaten the likes of Arvolski and Big Nog, there were not really a lot of other contenders there. Was it really that much of an issue? I'm no expert. In fact I'm completely raw on the matter and all of my info is from reading about it, but the message seems to be that when Fedor was dominant, UFC was not all that and you didn't need to be in UFC to be facing the top guys. So it wasn't like avoiding today's UFC where all (or virtually all) the top guys are fighting. The previous article referring to fighters like Cro Cop and Nogueiro. "The 2 best non-Fedor heavyweights of the era". Which seems as though being in the UFC at the time would have avoided those guys which seems to go in Fedor's favour. And both were masters and complete opposites, and Fedor beat the master grappler at grappling and the master striker at striking. Plus the point is made that Fedor was paving the way. Blazing a trail. Turning it into a sport, so he had no blueprint. He was the original, and it's much harder to lead than follow. As I say, I just find it an interesting discussion and it's a great way to learn about the history of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: i think he would he looks a lot bigger than him and if he gets mcgregor on the floor its game over Possibly, I just don't think Woodley is good enough to humiliate anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted November 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, BOF said: I'm no expert. In fact I'm completely raw on the matter and all of my info is from reading about it, but the message seems to be that when Fedor was dominant, UFC was not all that and you didn't need to be in UFC to be facing the top guys True and false, sort of. What Pride had was a much better Heavyweight division than the UFC apart from maybe Frank Mir and Randy Couture, so Fedor would not have gained anything at the time from being in the UFC. The lighter weights was owned more or less by UFC and WEC (featherweight and down) The reputation got a little tarnished when he (Along with Overeem) didn't follow all the other fighters when the UFC bought Pride. But as the article states, we are splitting loads of hair here. God I miss Pride though, what a freak-show that was, even the contracts said they would not test for steroids *hint* *hint* . It was shown on Eurosport and I remember the first event I saw. Vovchanchyn, Wanderlei and Liddell was on it. Early 2000 I think. No decisions in sight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Doesn't his time in Pride get a little tainted by allegations that some fights were predetermined in the organisation as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted November 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, sexbelowsound said: Doesn't his time in Pride get a little tainted by allegations that some fights were predetermined in the organisation as well? A bit yes. Can't remember any of his fights being in question but there are some very shady moments. Coleman - Takada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 15, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2016 Mate of mine wrote this on Fedor. Quote Fedor (who some hold as the greatest fighter of all time) was a sambo master and he kicked the shit out of everyone in his prime. No one could even hurt him, it was like fighting the terminator. I remember one of his opponents said it was like he was psychic. You'd be grappling with him and the second you thought of a way to gain advantage he would adjust his position to counter it even before you had tried it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, Tegis said: A bit yes. Can't remember any of his fights being in question but there are some very shady moments. Coleman - Takada I don't think I can either but it's always a cloud that hangs over someone with such an impressive record who fought in Pride. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted November 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 15, 2016 20 minutes ago, BOF said: Mate of mine wrote this on Fedor. Think Nurmagomedov, but 230 pounds And the coldest eyes ever seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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