zab6359 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 So you have people saying put him on the bench ahead of Engels seriously wtf! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 15 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: He's being granted a move to help get his face out there before we let him go IMO. I know I'm not going to make myself popular by saying this, but I don't think he has a future at this level of the game. Loved his efforts last week - named him man of the match afterwards - but he's two years older than Wesley Fofana, a bit more than two years younger than Konsa but by the same age Konsa had played nearly 100 senior games. Maybe it seems unfair to compare him to those players, but that's the level for good young centre backs in the PL. its a perfectly fair comparison if its related to whether he can make it at Villa. Its clear he wont, but i wish him the best and hope a few teams offer him something when his contract expires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, zab6359 said: So you have people saying put him on the bench ahead of Engels seriously wtf! I agree with you, but I think it's understandable that a lot of people got carried away in the emotion of it all last week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, zab6359 said: So you have people saying put him on the bench ahead of Engels seriously wtf! It's how it works round here. Someone has 3 shitters in a row and at least one person calls for our U13 top scorer to get a chance or the lad who has been on the bench for 4 years because he 'can't be any worse' Edited January 16, 2021 by rodders0223 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: It's how it works round here. Someone has 3 shitters in a row and at least one person calls for our U13 top scorer to get a chance or the lad who has been on the bench for 4 years because he 'can't be any worse' what a load of nonsense mate, never read such a load of old tosh. might be worth considering the under 8s tho as backup to Watkins, seriously cant be any worse than Wesley right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 15/01/2021 at 18:58, MotoMkali said: Skill wise he probably is. In terms of strength and stamina maybe not. He is only 21. Defenders take longer to learn their craft and most want an experienced cb to improve their defence which explains why he is in the national league rather than in league 1 or 2. No problem with him getting that loan move at 18/19 (different position but Archer is in that league at age) to non league but really by 21 he should be in at least league 2. I've been a bit bemused by how we've done things with him last few years. When we had the injury crisis at the back when DS first came in he was the backup on the bench. We don't loan him out and he plays next two years under 23 football and then he has a good performance against Liverpool's world class players and we decide to loan him out to a non league side near bottom of the table. Surely some league sides were interested? 22 in September so coming up to make or break time and not sure how this loan will push him on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Surely some league sides were interested? That's the problem, impossible to know And even if there was some interest from league 1 or 2 it might have been from teams who saw him as 3rd or 4th choice which we didn't see the point of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: He's being granted a move to help get his face out there before we let him go IMO. I know I'm not going to make myself popular by saying this, but I don't think he has a future at this level of the game. Loved his efforts last week - named him man of the match afterwards - but he's two years older than Wesley Fofana, a bit more than two years younger than Konsa but by the same age Konsa had played nearly 100 senior games. Maybe it seems unfair to compare him to those players, but that's the level for good young centre backs in the PL. I agree. Just been looking at Ben White's career. At 19 he was on loan at Newport in league 2 which was his first loan move. Then went to Peterborough in league 1 the next season and then turned up at Leeds last season. So that's moving up a level every year and was in championship at Revan's age. Brighton were then in great posiiton of knowing he was good enough to play for them or they could've sold him for 25m plus a sell on if they'd really wanted. Not saying Revan is anwhere near potential of White of course and if we'd considered him a first team prospect he'd have been loaned out last season. We actually loaned out Gary Cahill on a season loan to Burnley when he was just 18 and they were a mid table championship side at the time. Just feels odd to me he didn't get a loan in football league, Walsall CBs aren't great so surprised we didn't put him in the deal with Wright. Edited January 16, 2021 by VillaChris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Exactly this. I think it's helpful to think about there being a dividing line in the U23 squad, between those who were in that squad before the club announced their new policies on youth breaking through early and those who came after. Most of those who were in the squad previously have either been let go or have gone on decidedly humble loans this season (Jack Clarke to Yeovil; Lewis Brunt to Gloucester; Ben Guy to Portadown). Jake Walker, who also played the other night, was recalled from a loan to Alvechurch, who are battling relegation in the 7th tier, ie two divisions below Weymouth. He and Revan and Bridge are just winding down their careers with us IMO. Most of the rest of the starting XI from last week are younger, have been at the club for less time, and are more likely to be part of our future planning. Oh yeah none of those will break through properly but you look at what we did with Calum O'Hare a few years back. Played for us in Fa cup 3rd round in 17/18 and then for some reason we just kept him around for rest of the season even though he didn't play a single minute in run in bar perhaps last game when Bruce rested pretty much whole team for the play offs. We finally loaned him out in January 2019 to Carlisle when he was three months off 21. In long run not good enough for us but he's proved himself a good league 1 player with potential to be good championship player at Coventry. Doyles Hayes is another one. Loaned him out to Cheltenham when he was already 20. Did well there and St Mirren picked him up so someone who'll probably come back and do well in english lower leagues. It reminds me of years back just keeping likes of the Fonz around to sit on the bench behind Gabby, Heskey, Carew in pecking order rather than getting him a season long loan somewhere. Weimann did have a few loans around that time and he hit the ground running when he first broke through in 2012. Not saying we'll get more breaking through but we need to get better at sending players out on loan when they're 18/19 rather than 20/21 imo. Even if they can't make it here that would improve their valuation a bit more rather than us having to give some of the players away for nothing in the end. Will be very interesting how we use Kesler and Barry over next 18 months as those two obviously have huge potential and are good enough probably to get league 1 loan moves now if we wanted to send them out. Edited January 16, 2021 by VillaChris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2021 How did he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: How did he do? Lost 1-0 to Darlington apparently, FA trophy game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 12 hours ago, VillaChris said: Oh yeah none of those will break through properly but you look at what we did with Calum O'Hare a few years back. Played for us in Fa cup 3rd round in 17/18 and then for some reason we just kept him around for rest of the season even though he didn't play a single minute in run in bar perhaps last game when Bruce rested pretty much whole team for the play offs. We finally loaned him out in January 2019 to Carlisle when he was three months off 21. In long run not good enough for us but he's proved himself a good league 1 player with potential to be good championship player at Coventry. Doyles Hayes is another one. Loaned him out to Cheltenham when he was already 20. Did well there and St Mirren picked him up so someone who'll probably come back and do well in english lower leagues. It reminds me of years back just keeping likes of the Fonz around to sit on the bench behind Gabby, Heskey, Carew in pecking order rather than getting him a season long loan somewhere. Weimann did have a few loans around that time and he hit the ground running when he first broke through in 2012. Not saying we'll get more breaking through but we need to get better at sending players out on loan when they're 18/19 rather than 20/21 imo. Even if they can't make it here that would improve their valuation a bit more rather than us having to give some of the players away for nothing in the end. Will be very interesting how we use Kesler and Barry over next 18 months as those two obviously have huge potential and are good enough probably to get league 1 loan moves now if we wanted to send them out. It goes to show how hard it is to make it at this level or any level for that matter, my Liverpool supporting friend said the future is bright for that group of players you have after the cup game , but in reality not many will make it regardless of how good they looked in that game you only have to look back on who has come through our academy over the last 20 years, Michael Standing was supposed to be a bigger talent than Barry but ended up being his agent , I remember Luke Moore scoring a hattrick against Borro and thinking this guys is going to be amazing but a bad shoulder injury ruined him he was a bigger talent than Gabby but sometimes things don’t go these youngsters way, Andre Green was getting into the first team ahead of Grealish under Garde and Bruce to begin with and we all thought Grealish was just a luxury player who could have easily been sold if he hadn’t of bulked up and knuckled down attitude wise , its fine margins. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) On 17/01/2021 at 11:08, gwi1890 said: It goes to show how hard it is to make it at this level or any level for that matter, my Liverpool supporting friend said the future is bright for that group of players you have after the cup game , but in reality not many will make it regardless of how good they looked in that game you only have to look back on who has come through our academy over the last 20 years, Michael Standing was supposed to be a bigger talent than Barry but ended up being his agent , I remember Luke Moore scoring a hattrick against Borro and thinking this guys is going to be amazing but a bad shoulder injury ruined him he was a bigger talent than Gabby but sometimes things don’t go these youngsters way, Andre Green was getting into the first team ahead of Grealish under Garde and Bruce to begin with and we all thought Grealish was just a luxury player who could have easily been sold if he hadn’t of bulked up and knuckled down attitude wise , its fine margins. some of them think they have made it too soon.....Grealish is a fanatic at improving his own game, those are the ones that usually make it. Its difficult to tell who is and who isn't going to make it.....but there are tell tale signs along the way. I just think Goal keepers and centre Backs have to be very extra special, if they haven't got the natural assistance of height.....Strikers and wingers are limited, if the haven't got pace too. There are some things you have to have in the modern game, to have a real chance......but the one that is sometimes overlooked is intelligence, football intelligence, it takes a player a long way......if you can read the game well and subsequently position yourself in advance, its a big big help. Edited January 18, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Centre back in top division is nearly impossible for a youth academyplayer to break through, not just at Villa. Even Declan Rice had to move to midfield at West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 A load of really sensible and balanced views on here about that team. Reality is that this move gives him the best chance of a career in the game, be it for us or another club. And we owe our academy players that. I hope they all make it, but deep down I suspect that if 3 of the team that played the other night are playing for the first team in 4 or 5 years - either we've plummeted again, or we have a once in a generation crop of youngsters. The "class of '92" have that almost mystical reputation as it happens so rarely. Good luck to the lad; go, learn, work hard, and come back better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 clean sheet and a win vs 2nd spot team Hartlepool at weekend 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Playing against Ross McCormack's Aldershot tonight, although looking at the stats McCormack has only played in two of their twenty games, and even then only for a total of 28 minutes, so doubt the two will be facing each other. Hopefully Revan can continue his good form, has been getting positive reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, useless said: although looking at the stats McCormack has only played in two of their twenty games, and even then only for a total of 28 minutes, so doubt the two will be facing each other. Hopefully Revan can continue his good form, has been getting positive reviews. Gates still causing him trouble then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, BOF said: Gates still causing him trouble then. That Bill is a right c*** to be fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompedyret Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Hm. Every time I see this fella's name I can't help but be reminded about Knights of the Old Republic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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