A'Villan Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Comer Brothers on record as saying they were glad not to of purchased Aston Villa in the end as it turned out to be bad business. That was in 2013 and although a lot can change in 5 years, opinions most of all, I don't really think we're in any better position. Although the Comer brother philosohy is "You want to be running in with your cash when everyone else is running out with theirs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 19, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 19, 2018 Sad to say, with each passing day of silence from the club, and not even negative or positive press stories - it appears we are at the precipice of something. We will be picked up by someone, eventually, but it's how we get there. Fingers and toes crossed at this moment that it doesn't mean administration first - you absolutely have to hope that there's at least one interested party out there who will bid before that happens but we have come to expect the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) What happened to the substantial sums of cash deposited in the uk in order to satisfy the League, that Tony was, who he says he is.....was that a red herring? He could have any amount of money, in china, but if they won't let him have it, for whatever reason, he is as good as skint. anyone is only as rich as their access to cash allows.....assets unless sold are useless. Edited June 19, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, TRO said: What happened to the substantial sums of cash deposited in the uk in order to satisfy the League, that Tony was, who he says he is.....was that a red herring? He could have any amount of money, in china, but if they won't let him have it, for whatever reason, he is as good as skint. anyone is only as rich as their access to cash allows.....assets unless sold are useless. Yes, he could, but I think it’s an optimistic view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 hours ago, terrytini said: Yes, he could, but I think it’s an optimistic view. well my point was Terry, even if he has and can;t get at it....what use is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) On 14/06/2018 at 12:48, A'Villan said: Comer Brothers on record as saying they were glad not to of purchased Aston Villa in the end as it turned out to be bad business. That was in 2013 and although a lot can change in 5 years, opinions most of all, I don't really think we're in any better position. Although the Comer brother philosohy is "You want to be running in with your cash when everyone else is running out with theirs." Which begs the question....Who in their right mind or right intention, is going to buy it. A money laundering outfit is the only one that springs to mind....in which case deeper in to the swamp we go. Edited June 19, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, TRO said: Which begs the question....Who in their right mind or right intention, is going to buy it. A money laundering outfit is the only one that springs to mind....in which case deeper in to the swamp we go. The people who can afford to buy Aston Villa won't necessarily be concerned with restoring a once great club to its former glory, without it benefiting them either financially, socially or both. What do you mean by the right mind or intention? Successful businessmen don't always amount to the most ethical or benevolent of people! I wonder if there are people out there who see Villa as a potentially great football club worth their time and investment still. Surely there are. Edited June 20, 2018 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted June 20, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) It really ought to be possible to promote Aston Villa on a reasonable sustainable budget. The best players in this league will be attracted to play for Aston Villa and we ought to be able to pay them realistic but nevertheless higher wages than their current clubs. The problem has been offering players multiples of what they are currently being paid. If a similar company to the one you work for offered you a 20% pay rise would you move jobs? If they were a company which are much more prestigious with huge opportunities for you with far better working conditions and facilities would you not then run through walls to get that move with the 20% wage rise? I am sure a smart Businessman could get us promoted with a reasonable sustainable wage bill. We constantly seem to chuck money at players for no real reason. Edited June 20, 2018 by sidcow 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, sidcow said: It really ought to be able to promote Aston Villa on a reasonable sustainable budget. The best players in this league will be attracted to play for Aston Villa and we ought to be able to pay them realistic but nevertheless higher wages than their current clubs. The problem. Has been offering players multiples of what they are currently being paid. If a similar company to the one you work for offered you a 20% pay rise would you move jobs? If they were a company which are much more prestigious with huge opportunities for you with far better working conditions and facilities would you not then run through walls to get that move with the 20% wage rise? I am sure a smart Businessman could get us promoted with a reasonable sustainable wage bill. We constantly seem to chuck money at players for no real reason. Agree with this. The only other prerequisite to success I would add is an active interest in the running of the club. Keeping up with the decisions of people in charge to better identify potential mistakes and areas for improvement. Not just taking it at face value that this person is going to be a success, I think we need to have a level of scrutiny and standards which challenges anyone to do their best. It's one thing to be able to pay the highest rates to obtain the best talent but it's something else to ensure an environment whereby that talent can function and develop. We saw that we are not so far above the rest that we can depend on wages offered, past performances and club stature alone to get where we want to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 20, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2018 The crazy thing about Villa is that there is a sustainable business screaming out to be developed and nurtured with the added bonus of premiership riches if you get the basics correct. Bodymoor Heath is also undergoing a redevelopment from government money to turn it from world class into better than world class. There is an opportunity there that owners of other championship clubs who have been sensible all these years would be screaming at to see such mismanagement on such an epic scale. I'm adamant whoever comes in next will not be chancing their luck, needs must and we have reached a point where we can only follow a sustainable model. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The problem with the talk of next owner must run us sustainably is that like Tony, the new owner will have to deal with years of neglect and players being massively overpaid with several years to run on their deals. Tony could sell the club for £1 tomorrow and even the most savvy owner will have a massive challenge to balance the books and avoid going backwards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 hours ago, A'Villan said: I wonder if there are people out there who see Villa as a potentially great football club worth their time and investment still. Surely there are. This is what I find most saddening. There ARE. At least 30-40,000 and probably many more. Wouldn’t it be great if someone, anyone ( but people like the former Governor of the Bank of England spring to mind) with the necessary contacts and knowledge could engage those people ? When Lerner put us up for sale I tried myself, but you can’t even get a hearing without either personally knowing the people or having substantial funds up front. I couldn’t and can’t help thinking that as a minimum there’s a sum of money to be tapped into from fans. Who knows for sure how much ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 47 minutes ago, terrytini said: This is what I find most saddening. There ARE. At least 30-40,000 and probably many more. Wouldn’t it be great if someone, anyone ( but people like the former Governor of the Bank of England spring to mind) with the necessary contacts and knowledge could engage those people ? When Lerner put us up for sale I tried myself, but you can’t even get a hearing without either personally knowing the people or having substantial funds up front. I couldn’t and can’t help thinking that as a minimum there’s a sum of money to be tapped into from fans. Who knows for sure how much ? Interesting point. I can understand your disappointment with having to front money to get a hearing. Perhaps a well thought out letter of proposal could find it's way to the relevant parties in order to arouse some mutual interest. I'm not entirely sure what your suggested plan and efforts are all about, other than further engaging the supporters in finance, decision making and hierarchy of the club, if I'm even on the right track there? I'm of the opinion that we need expertise to take the club forward and compete at the top tier. Whether that be through fresh ideas or experienced personnel, I hope there would be some balance. One thing I have no doubt about is that the passion and commitment to the club that the supporters have would be a force to be reckoned with, and would be a welcome addition to keeping the board and CEO in check, adding a meaning and purpose to operations beyond business enterprise. Theirs no substitute for having your heart in it. It would be a matter of transparency and communication between the board and the clubs supporters, once privy to relevant information, supporters can weigh in on the decision making process and appointments. I really think it would create a culture of accountability rather than be of any hindrance. The problem as I understand it though is price and therefore supporter involvement would be something that cannot be bought at an affordable cost. Leaving the board with the ultimate decision on how much input and involvement fans are allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) @terrytini and anyone else who's interested in reading up on the subject. "Business Advantages of Supporter Community Ownership in Football" "It is clear that supporter community ownership creates long-term, deep and sustainable partnerships with key strategic partners." https://supporters-direct.org/assets/media/articleFiles/file-6WtseCMVPbuu.pdf Edited June 20, 2018 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 hours ago, A'Villan said: The people who can afford to buy Aston Villa won't necessarily be concerned with restoring a once great club to its former glory, without it benefiting them either financially, socially or both. What do you mean by the right mind or intention? Successful businessmen don't always amount to the most ethical or benevolent of people! I wonder if there are people out there who see Villa as a potentially great football club worth their time and investment still. Surely there are. I just don't see a queue forming to bail out an owner that has us in this financial position. It all depends on what is on the table.....I can't see Tony recovering the bulk of his money.....a modest fee and cover the debts maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1984 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 5 hours ago, TRO said: I just don't see a queue forming to bail out an owner that has us in this financial position. It all depends on what is on the table.....I can't see Tony recovering the bulk of his money.....a modest fee and cover the debts maybe. Well, that would depend on the clubs REAL financial position which none of us know. Tony brought the club knowing he had the extra income from parachute payments for three years, one assumes the clubs price is lower simply because 2 of those 3 years have passed by regardless of financial position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 10 hours ago, terrytini said: This is what I find most saddening. There ARE. At least 30-40,000 and probably many more. Wouldn’t it be great if someone, anyone ( but people like the former Governor of the Bank of England spring to mind) with the necessary contacts and knowledge could engage those people ? When Lerner put us up for sale I tried myself, but you can’t even get a hearing without either personally knowing the people or having substantial funds up front. I couldn’t and can’t help thinking that as a minimum there’s a sum of money to be tapped into from fans. Who knows for sure how much ? How about the idea to put the club on the public stock market? Then we could all buy shares in the club. It could also facilitate for someone (like the supporters trust?) to set up a fund for buying shares that supporters could invest in. The supporters/the fund could potentially gain quite much influence, like a place at the board, even if we don't become majority owners. Didn't Doug Ellis put us on the stock market before Lerner bought the club? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keener window-cleaner said: How about the idea to put the club on the public stock market? Then we could all buy shares in the club. It could also facilitate for someone (like the supporters trust?) to set up a fund for buying shares that supporters could invest in. The supporters/the fund could potentially gain quite much influence, like a place at the board, even if we don't become majority owners. Didn't Doug Ellis put us on the stock market before Lerner bought the club? You could potentially negotiate the allocation of a place on the board with 10-20%. It's happened before. Other influence to be gained is a good disclosure statement or the acquisition of reasons for a given resolution by court order, so even without representation on the board minority shareholders can keep checks on and be informed about board decisions and evaluate performance. The pdf I posted above has a whole chapter dedicated to the benefits of transparency between club and supporters. All of this would facilitate a hierarchy that acts within the best interests of the club and its supporters whilst also enabling the removal of parties acting out of self interest or the interest of the shareholder that appointed them. Edited June 20, 2018 by A'Villan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 When the arse fell out of the housing market, one of my clients said to me, ``Now is when I start buying''. Aston Villa will be seen as an opportunity in it's present circumstances. The problem will be getting an investor with the business nous to run a football club in a professional manner, and who will also have a regard for the wellbeing of the club itself. It will not be easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said: Didn't Doug Ellis put us on the stock market before Lerner bought the club? The club was floated on the LSE in 1996. He bought up a lot of shares including those of fans that had small holdings of shares from 1968 onwards and then Randy bought up the rest so that the club was owned solely by him after HDE sold his shares to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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