World Cup : Group B (Por, Spa, Mor, Irn)

[Genie]

4 hours ago, Hornso said:

Can't believe Iran nearly got out of the group...

 

I watched all 3 Iran games and I liked them. It would have been incredible if they’d snook through.

[cyrusr]

VAR wasn’t at fault for the bizarre decision, the buck still lies with the ref and what I saw for 90 minutes was a wholly inept one! Didn’t control the game and could dispute decision. I think I read somewhere that in the other game he has been in they made a complaint but can’t remember which one. 

Anyway, Iran were very close from getting out of the group (ruled out goal in Spain game; that shot that hit the netting in Portugal) and knocking either Spain or Portugal out would have been phenomenal. They have a lot to improve politics/freedom wise but they did very well in this World Cup and in this group. 

Morocco too did alright, I think Spain and Portugal were very lucky in the end to be going through, which you would definitely not have said before the start of the competition!

[Genie]

I think “VAR” was referring stuff to the ref to take another look at that we’re not clear cut so the refs initial response should stand. It’s being over deployed now. The hand ball and the Ronaldo “arm” were both contentious and so should not have been pulled back (IMO).

[Stevo985]

55 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think “VAR” was referring stuff to the ref to take another look at that we’re not clear cut so the refs initial response should stand. It’s being over deployed now. The hand ball and the Ronaldo “arm” were both contentious and so should not have been pulled back (IMO).

The handball I agree on. That shouldn't have been referred, let alone given. But that's still ultimately on the ref.

The Ronaldo elbow was probably a red, and they had every right to get the ref to look at that. The ref just bottled it.

 

So out of 4 VAR incidents last night, 1 was wrong. I don't think that's overdeployed.

Said before but the only issue I potentially see at the moment is the referees feeling pressured to change a decision just because it's gone to VAR. 

[El Zen]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Said before but the only issue I potentially see at the moment is the referees feeling pressured to change a decision just because it's gone to VAR. 

Then that’s on them, too. If they can’t handle it, they’re not fit to referee in the World Cup.

[Stevo985]

Just now, Michelsen said:

Then that’s on them, too. If they can’t handle it, they’re not fit to referee in the World Cup.

Well yeah. But I'd still say it might need some reinforcement that the refs can and should stick to their guns if they think they're right.

[Genie]

27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Well yeah. But I'd still say it might need some reinforcement that the refs can and should stick to their guns if they think they're right.

They should do that, but they are only human. Like we've heard many times from ex-refs in England, they often make decisions to avoid the backlash of managers the press. They take the easier way out. If he'd have sent Ronaldo off last night for something that he didn't initially give and then on VAR still divided opinon he'd be in hiding today. That's a fact.

Last nights ref took the cowards way out. Neither stuck to his initial opinion or gave the red card it was pulled back for potentially being which was bizarre.

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Genie

[Zatman]

8 hours ago, MrDuck said:

FIFA are not going to allow the tournament's most marketable player to be sent off and banned, it simply won't happen.

Especially with Messi nearly out as well

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, MrDuck said:

FIFA are not going to allow the tournament's most marketable player to be sent off and banned, it simply won't happen.

I think this is tin foil hat stuff, personally.

If that really was happening then why would it have been reviewed by VAR in the first place?

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

The handball I agree on. That shouldn't have been referred, let alone given. But that's still ultimately on the ref.

The Ronaldo elbow was probably a red, and they had every right to get the ref to look at that. The ref just bottled it.

 

So out of 4 VAR incidents last night, 1 was wrong. I don't think that's overdeployed.

Said before but the only issue I potentially see at the moment is the referees feeling pressured to change a decision just because it's gone to VAR. 

1 wrong that fundamentally affected the game. VAR in principle isn't the issue, the idiots looking at it are. For that reason there should be restrictions on how it's deployed IMO.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss

[Dr_Pangloss]

9 hours ago, MrDuck said:

FIFA are not going to allow the tournament's most marketable player to be sent off and banned, it simply won't happen.

Seeing it again I really don't think it's a clear red. He flung out an arm to get past a player, it was certainly aggressive, but hardly a 'elbow' thrown with intent to harm someone IMO. I can understand it being a red in this current climate but hardly a clear one for me, hardly the 'assault' some people are making out.

[Stevo985]

11 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

1 wrong that fundamentally affected the game. VAR in principle isn't the issue, the idiots looking at it are. For that reason there should be restrictions on how it's deployed IMO.

Restrictions like what?

The "idiots" looking at it have been right the vast majority of the time imo.

[lapal_fan]

Yea, I didn't think much of the Ronaldo "elbow", just that he was obstructed and he aggressively tried to overcome the obstacle.  He was a bit over zealous, but it's supposed to be a contact sport.  Get in my way in a similar fashion and I'd let the defender I was there too. 

I think we've all just gone a bit "soft" because slow motion always makes things look worse than they are.  That entire incident took place in about .5 seconds - who the hell cares? 

VAR was used correctly, because it could have been construed as intent, but I think the ref got it spot on because it was a little over aggressive, but it wasn't intentional.  

[a m ole]

16 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Yea, I didn't think much of the Ronaldo "elbow", just that he was obstructed and he aggressively tried to overcome the obstacle.  He was a bit over zealous, but it's supposed to be a contact sport.  Get in my way in a similar fashion and I'd let the defender I was there too. 

I think we've all just gone a bit "soft" because slow motion always makes things look worse than they are.  That entire incident took place in about .5 seconds - who the hell cares? 

VAR was used correctly, because it could have been construed as intent, but I think the ref got it spot on because it was a little over aggressive, but it wasn't intentional.  

I think critically the defender blocked him off once first, Ronaldo actually has his elbow up looking prepared to do something after that, and does it in a way to make it look accidental. I’m 100% sure it was premeditated, but I can see why others would  disagree.

[BOF]

I think Lawro made a good point (shock horror!) yesterday during the Portugal game.  The referee makes his initial call on the pitch.  He then receives word that 'maybe you should take another look at that'.  Straight away he's now in 2 minds and doubting himself.  This almost prejudices his viewing of the incident.

The other thing I'm wondering relates to what @lapal_fan says above.  Things look worse in slow motion.  We know that, but referees are not used to seeing things in slow motion whilst reffing a game.  I'm wondering if the refs actually need time to adjust to the fact that something like the Iran 'penalty' just isn't one in normal speed, but looks far worse frame by frame.

[VillaChris]

VAR usage really hasn't been that bad. Yes a few wrong calls and also penalties that weren't looked at for some reason but I've been impressed by how quick the decisions have been looked at and resolved.

Compare that to Liverpool-West Brom and Spurs-Rochdale where decisions took forever to be reviewed. There was also a game in Seria A where a penalty review took 5 minutes.

[MrDuck]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think this is tin foil hat stuff, personally.

 

Perhaps. I just find it hard to be anything but exceptionally cynical with regards to FIFA these days.