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18/19 Race for Promotion


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1 hour ago, Dave J said:

For me he has failed enough to warrant a change at the helm and not just this season but last as well and I can't help but wonder what has he done to inspire us to believe he can make it 3rd time lucky ?

He's consistently improved. It's not like we've gone backwards under him. 

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36 minutes ago, lexicon said:

He's consistently improved. It's not like we've gone backwards under him. 

You are correct with this.

However when you measure the increment of improvement against the resources available, and objective etc, coupled with the fact that the resources will be diminished the resulting conclusion is the same.

 

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6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You are correct with this.

However when you measure the increment of improvement against the resources available, and objective etc, coupled with the fact that the resources will be diminished the resulting conclusion is the same.

 

So formally written, but it doesn't change the fact we have 100% improved from a uniquely awful position. We were one of the worst prem teams in recent memory and had I think one win in the championship when he took over. Resources are important but our wage bill was also partly so high because of a glut of shit he inherited.

The resulting conclusion is the same in your head only. You were very dismissive of anyone else having a differning opinion before. Makes it all seem a bit pointless. 

As I have said myself, I'm no Bruce lover but let's at least think beyond black and white binary thinking. 

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1 hour ago, praisedmambo said:

So formally written, but it doesn't change the fact we have 100% improved from a uniquely awful position. We were one of the worst prem teams in recent memory and had I think one win in the championship when he took over. Resources are important but our wage bill was also partly so high because of a glut of shit he inherited.

The resulting conclusion is the same in your head only. You were very dismissive of anyone else having a differning opinion before. Makes it all seem a bit pointless. 

As I have said myself, I'm no Bruce lover but let's at least think beyond black and white binary thinking. 

You only have to look through the message board to realise this is bollox surely?

"Dismissive of anyone else of a differing opinion"

Huh? This literally sounds like you moaning about me countering your opinion in the past, with some facts which must have unbalanced your equilibrium. WTF?

Are you new to the forum?

lol

Edited by JAMAICAN-VILLAN
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9 hours ago, praisedmambo said:

Pretty sure Jurgen Klopp aimed to win the Champions League. He failed. 

I guess my point is, so what? It's not black and white. You'll certainly not see many Liverpool fans using his failure as a reason to sack him. 

Have we improved since Bruce has been here? This would be a better and more useful measurement. The answer is incredibly so. 

That is a bit of a mile high comparison.

Do you also see Jurgen Klopp going into 2018/19 with only half a team, Spurs bidding £15m for Salah and not a pot to piss in hope of hell of achieving anything next season? 

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8 hours ago, praisedmambo said:

So formally written, but it doesn't change the fact we have 100% improved from a uniquely awful position. We were one of the worst prem teams in recent memory and had I think one win in the championship when he took over. Resources are important but our wage bill was also partly so high because of a glut of shit he inherited.

The resulting conclusion is the same in your head only. You were very dismissive of anyone else having a differning opinion before. Makes it all seem a bit pointless. 

As I have said myself, I'm no Bruce lover but let's at least think beyond black and white binary thinking. 

But the bottom line is that he has twice failed in his objectives - regardless of the measure of improvement and I saw nothing to inspire to think he can go better next year - so surely the conclusion is that change is needed?

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Lads take it to the Bruce tread!  We can’t have Groundhog Day here as well. 

As it stands our squad is already considerably weaker than last year and if stories are to believe will get weaker yet. There a lot of gaps to fill with apparently no money to use to fill it.

So if anybody thinks we have a chance of being in a promotion race with or without Bruce they are kidding themselves.  

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5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Lads take it to the Bruce tread!  We can’t have Groundhog Day here as well. 

As it stands our squad is already considerably weaker than last year and if stories are to believe will get weaker yet. There a lot of gaps to fill with apparently no money to use to fill it.

So if anybody thinks we have a chance of being in a promotion race with or without Bruce they are kidding themselves.  

Not so sure I agree. It would take something monumental, something special.

With the right coaching and setup though there's no reason we won't be competitive in each fixture, hopefully we get it right and take it one further than that in some fixtures.

 

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5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Lads take it to the Bruce tread!  We can’t have Groundhog Day here as well. 

As it stands our squad is already considerably weaker than last year and if stories are to believe will get weaker yet. There a lot of gaps to fill with apparently no money to use to fill it.

So if anybody thinks we have a chance of being in a promotion race with or without Bruce they are kidding themselves.  

It is weaker, but is it that much weaker? We don't know yet what the squad will look like in August. And as long as what we're getting rid of is either deadwood or players that we can replace, I'm not ready to give up just yet. 

Last season we had a team more than capable of promotion, but underachieved. If we next season have a weaker squad, but overachieve, it can still be done. Either through automatic or playoff. The three teams above us all got promoted. If Swansea, WBA and Stoke all make strong challenges for promotion, we will struggle. But if they don't, anything can happen. Remember that the relegated teams will need a complete rebuild during the summer. 

 

Edited by Silent_Bob
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Bookies still tipping us as one of the favourites for promotion next season.

 

EARLY ODDS

Plenty of transfer business still to be done but the bookies make Gary Rowett's Stoke the early Championship favourites for promotion...

Stoke - 9/4

Middlesbrough, Swansea, West Brom - 3/1

Leeds - 4/1

Aston Villa - 5/1

Brentford - 11/2

Derby - 9/2

Norwich - 7/1

Nottingham Forest - 15/2

http://www.skysports.com/football/live-blog/11688/11410018/efl-2018-19-fixtures-day-live

 

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On 19/06/2018 at 15:26, praisedmambo said:

Pretty sure Jurgen Klopp aimed to win the Champions League. He failed. 

I guess my point is, so what? It's not black and white. You'll certainly not see many Liverpool fans using his failure as a reason to sack him. 

Have we improved since Bruce has been here? This would be a better and more useful measurement. The answer is incredibly so. 

You cannot seriously compare the two. It makes no sense on any level.

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On 19/06/2018 at 19:08, lexicon said:

And regardless of that, Dr. P - I don't think Bruce failed badly enough to deserve the sack. 

Achieving - 1st or 2nd.

Didn't fail badly enough - winning play offs.

Failing - not promoted.

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53 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Looking at the fixtures, even with Chester and grealish gone, thanks to being relatively settled there is nobody to fear.

Going to have to reinvent ourselves without Grealish but no point neglecting the formation of the coming seasons team to woe the loss of our best player.

Hopefully Bruce sees this as an opportunity to instill a more structured team dynamic with those that remain and anyone who comes in.

We will still have some of the divisions better recent performers, some in their prime. It's on Bruce to implement a system that gets the most of the individuals at his disposal for the purpose of performing as a team.

Hopefully he has identified a worthy captain, I hope it's someone who can inspire us to give our best and work to the plans and preparations employed by Bruce. Someone Bruce can look to for dependability and not just someone who is talented, experienced or fan favourite.

With everything that's been said surrounding the club I have no idea what to expect.

All I know is if we're starting the season with the likes of Kodjia, Hourihane, Lansbury, Adomah, Hogan, Davis, Green, hopefully O'Hare on return and Hutton then we have decent foundations to build a team that can compete with anyone and challenge top half of the table.

Edited by A'Villan
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1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Looking at the fixtures, even with Chester and grealish gone, thanks to being relatively settled there is nobody to fear.

Absolutely nobody! I think this is going to be the poorest standard of football in the league for quite a few years.

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On 20/06/2018 at 07:33, Vive_La_Villa said:

Lads take it to the Bruce tread!  We can’t have Groundhog Day here as well. 

As it stands our squad is already considerably weaker than last year and if stories are to believe will get weaker yet. There a lot of gaps to fill with apparently no money to use to fill it.

So if anybody thinks we have a chance of being in a promotion race with or without Bruce they are kidding themselves.  

I agree but as an architect in our demise - does he even warrant a further chance ?

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2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I agree but as an architect in our demise - does he even warrant a further chance ?

If I thought for a chance we may have a squad next year that couldn’t challenge for promotion I’d say no. He doesn’t deserve that chance. 

But because I think it’s going to be a pretty shit season which is more about staying in the league than anything else I couldn’t care less Bruce if in charge. He is a good enough manager to keep us in the league even if he can’t take us forward. 

I don’t think next season will be about going forward. It will be about preventing us from going backwards. 

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10 hours ago, Davkaus said:

i'm surprised Forest's odds are so low. I'll have some of that.

I don't think there will be more than a couple of points between us and Forest next season. I was thinking we would both be mid table but would be more than happy with it being at the top of the table that Forest finish as you suggest. If that is alongside us then we will both be proved right. ;)

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