LondonLax Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Could Iran turn to China for backing in place of the US? China seem to be supporting every developing country these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 If Israel would have wanted to bombard Iran - they (or should I say "We") could have done it long ago. There was a very harsh debate over this matter some years ago. The majority of Israelis, alongside key government members at the time (Ehud Barak is one of them, alongside Meir Dagan, former head of the Mossad) were against this operation and as you can all see - it didn't come true. Iran is a huge problem. Iran is currently unsettling the entire region, boldly claiming their aim is to vanquish Israel and actively doing things to show they are serious. They brought Israel and Saudi Arabia close together. If I recall correctly, Tunisia cut all relationship with Iran last week due to their efforts for creating internal turmoil. Syria (partly) and Lebanon are under Iranian Control, as do Iraq, or at least parts of it. The rapid expansion and their bold claims against Sunni and Jewish regimes in the area is not something anyone can take lightly. I wish to remind you all that Israel had good diplomatic relations with Iran up until the Islamic revolution. For Israel, the ultimate goal is for the Iranian government to collapse, as there is no real quarrel between the states. Iran is not an Arabic state, there are no past wars and no occupied territories for the Iranians to "free". And still, most of their efforts are directed towards Israel, including the development of the nuclear weapons. As an Israeli, I am deeply concerned and I am for any relevant action that will put a stop to their ambitions. If Trump will manage to bring Iran to its knees due to their deteriorating economic state - I have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Glarmorgan said: If Israel would have wanted to bombard Iran - they (or should I say "We") could have done it long ago. There was a very harsh debate over this matter some years ago. The majority of Israelis, alongside key government members at the time (Ehud Barak is one of them, alongside Meir Dagan, former head of the Mossad) were against this operation and as you can all see - it didn't come true. Iran is a huge problem. Iran is currently unsettling the entire region, boldly claiming their aim is to vanquish Israel and actively doing things to show they are serious. They brought Israel and Saudi Arabia close together. If I recall correctly, Tunisia cut all relationship with Iran last week due to their efforts for creating internal turmoil. Syria (partly) and Lebanon are under Iranian Control, as do Iraq, or at least parts of it. The rapid expansion and their bold claims against Sunni and Jewish regimes in the area is not something anyone can take lightly. I wish to remind you all that Israel had good diplomatic relations with Iran up until the Islamic revolution. For Israel, the ultimate goal is for the Iranian government to collapse, as there is no real quarrel between the states. Iran is not an Arabic state, there are no past wars and no occupied territories for the Iranians to "free". And still, most of their efforts are directed towards Israel, including the development of the nuclear weapons. As an Israeli, I am deeply concerned and I am for any relevant action that will put a stop to their ambitions. If Trump will manage to bring Iran to its knees due to their deteriorating economic state - I have no problem with it. All true and fair enough. That being the case, is it your view that Israel is now or will shortly try to force a conflict on its own terms with IRGC forces in Syria and Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon? What are your expectations vis Turkey and Russia if a hot war kicks off on Syrian territory/the Golan? Is there anything in the public domain on Israeli estimates of the transnational Shia militia numbers in Syria? Do you think they fall under the SAA or IRGC chain of command? These aren’t trick questions, I’m very interested in your take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Glarmorgan said: If Israel would have wanted to bombard Iran - they (or should I say "We") could have done it long ago. There was a very harsh debate over this matter some years ago. The majority of Israelis, alongside key government members at the time (Ehud Barak is one of them, alongside Meir Dagan, former head of the Mossad) were against this operation and as you can all see - it didn't come true. Iran is a huge problem. Iran is currently unsettling the entire region, boldly claiming their aim is to vanquish Israel and actively doing things to show they are serious. They brought Israel and Saudi Arabia close together. If I recall correctly, Tunisia cut all relationship with Iran last week due to their efforts for creating internal turmoil. Syria (partly) and Lebanon are under Iranian Control, as do Iraq, or at least parts of it. The rapid expansion and their bold claims against Sunni and Jewish regimes in the area is not something anyone can take lightly. I wish to remind you all that Israel had good diplomatic relations with Iran up until the Islamic revolution. For Israel, the ultimate goal is for the Iranian government to collapse, as there is no real quarrel between the states. Iran is not an Arabic state, there are no past wars and no occupied territories for the Iranians to "free". And still, most of their efforts are directed towards Israel, including the development of the nuclear weapons. As an Israeli, I am deeply concerned and I am for any relevant action that will put a stop to their ambitions. If Trump will manage to bring Iran to its knees due to their deteriorating economic state - I have no problem with it. What's your opinion on the shooting of unarmed protesters? Or the long term plan to take over the West Bank? Or the elevated status of a certain specific religious sect over all others? Or the massive war crimes occurring against the civilian population in Yemen? Iran is upsetting the entire region. They live in a region with all sorts going on. To point a finger at Iran alone is simplistic in the extreme, or I suppose patriotic from certain perspectives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: USIS Although I'm guessing you were implying that, I'm still pretty happy I spotted it. Bravo Sir! I hadn't.... I was having trouble coming up with something better than the 2003 piece of, ahem, genius "Coalition of the Willing". Edited May 9, 2018 by villakram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 A useful primer for things to come. "Probably I don’t need to say that people like Bolton who were part of the original plot have reemerged, or that the People’s Jihadi Organization (MEK) is an Iranian cell that is playing the role of Chalabi and has Bolton, Pompeo, Giuliani and others in its back pocket (it also has strong connections to Israeli intelligence). I don’t need to point out that Iran is being maneuvered into expelling UN inspectors so that a propaganda campaign can be waged. The United Arab Emirates, part of the current plot, even had its house organ Alarabiya do a “documentary” monstrously alleging that Iran was behind 9/11. The stage is set." https://www.juancole.com/2018/05/trump-warmonger-playbook.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 The MEK connection is fascinating, and absolutely Washington at its breathtaking worst. Needless to say, whole swathes of MEK shills have turned up staffing the Trump administration, including Giuliani, Bolton and Chao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 @Glarmorgan might have some news (if he’s not on the way to the front!) but Twitter lighting up with news of Iranian or Syrian rockets hitting the Golan and Israeli airstrikes around Damascus. Looks like Trump has literally fired the starting gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2018 Iran are in a position where they don't have a lot to lose - the US and Israel have telegraphed their intentions, if it comes down to out and out conflict, they'll get shock and awed into the stone age - I wonder if they're thinking about getting a couple of digs in first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Iran are in a position where they don't have a lot to lose - the US and Israel have telegraphed their intentions, if it comes down to out and out conflict, they'll get shock and awed into the stone age - I wonder if they're thinking about getting a couple of digs in first? Iran has been moving many thousands of rockets into Syria and many more into Lebanon for months, those are meant for Israel, not for use in Syrian conflict. The Trump decision has brought it to a head, but an attack on Israel was in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 WW3 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 That supposed Iranian attack on Israel (or rather occupied territory) was a bit too convenient for my liking. Giving Israel an excuse to attack and claim it was justified. Might of course be true, sure Iran would love to bomb Israel. But this screams of "Nigerian Yellow cake Uranium" to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Stop being silly. Iran has nothing to gain from moving first. As Assad has demonstrated, patience and not responding to constant provocation requires the war mongers to take off their masks and be open about their lust. However, their cowardice and interest in self preservation is trumping this thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Mooch on top form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted May 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: Mooch on top form. Well, glad that's sorted then. On to North Korea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2018 Wait, Iran are ISIS? This might be completely wrong, but isn't ISIS a predominantly Sunni group and Iran are predominantly Shia? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yes. The Mooch (and much of the Trump base, and his administration) are **** idiots. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 50 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Wait, Iran are ISIS? This might be completely wrong, but isn't ISIS a predominantly Sunni group and Iran are predominantly Shia? Besides the religious difference ISIS are predominately Arabs and Iran is Persian so there is a cultural clash as well. Iran and ISIS hate each other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 09/05/2018 at 14:22, Awol said: All true and fair enough. That being the case, is it your view that Israel is now or will shortly try to force a conflict on its own terms with IRGC forces in Syria and Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon? What are your expectations vis Turkey and Russia if a hot war kicks off on Syrian territory/the Golan? Is there anything in the public domain on Israeli estimates of the transnational Shia militia numbers in Syria? Do you think they fall under the SAA or IRGC chain of command? These aren’t trick questions, I’m very interested in your take. OK, so let's see 1. I don't think Israel will force a conflict, unless it will become the last resort. Israel have no motive to get into a war with the Iranian forces in Syria, as long as they are not making any active plans to attack us. The people here are not too keen on war. As long as the conflict is being constrained to aerial attacks every once in a while - it'll be accepted and supported (due to the fact that Iran is trying to boil things up). I find it very hard to believe this support will continue of any massive ground war will commence. The issue with Hizbollah is quite the same - as long as they do not attack us or actively threaten Israeli borders - I see no way for the government to start a war. Quite frankly, I hope that Hizbulla will aim their interests towards recovering Lebanon rather that harassing Israel. It will, eventually, cost Lebanon dearly. 2. All actions here are being coordinated with Russia. The last massive aerial assault was, as reported, with the silent approval of Russia. I don't think that it's in Russia interests for a major conflict to erupt. They need their holding in Syria, their harbor in Tartus and that's it. A major conflict will harm their interests. Turkey is irrelevant at the moment. Their president made himself irrelevant and I cannot see any way for a conflict with them, so far away from their borders. All in all - the Golan makes a hell of a defensive line and I don't think there's anyone, at the moment, threatening Israel's existence. Not at least Iran will get their nukes. 3. Israel and the Israelis chose not to get involved in the Syrian civil war, as most of us agree there are no "good guys" over there. The Shiite forces will most probably become proxies of Iran, but thanks to Hizbullah, we are quite used to this situation. Hope I got it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 09/05/2018 at 17:34, villakram said: What's your opinion on the shooting of unarmed protesters? Or the long term plan to take over the West Bank? Or the elevated status of a certain specific religious sect over all others? Or the massive war crimes occurring against the civilian population in Yemen? Iran is upsetting the entire region. They live in a region with all sorts going on. To point a finger at Iran alone is simplistic in the extreme, or I suppose patriotic from certain perspectives. First of all - these questions are irrelevant to Iran. Iran is not targeting Israel for its control of the West Bank and so on. The middle east, if you'd like, is not a region which Iran should get a foothold in. Still they do. If your questions where honest in a quest to better understand my opinion and things here - I would gladly answer. Since my experience here proves that I need to deal with a lot of misleading ideas and false claims - I am extremely cautions when I am to deal with the Palestinian situations in this place. I respect the opinions of most people here, but when people here are trying to tell me how things are over here, it makes the whole discussion pointless. Israel is a very complex country, which sits in the middle of an extremely complex neighborhood, but after only 70 years of existence, we managed to build a country which if good to live in, with a democratic way of life and freedom to us all. This is the complete opposite to any other country here, from Tunisia, through Turkey to Iran and Saudi Arabia. True, there are things which can be done better, but I find it hard to believe that any other country in world could achieve that in 70 years. So, just let me know if you wish for me to answer. If so - I will gladly hold this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts