Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, Brumerican said:

You'd think Marvel and Netflix have enough dough to have made Iron Fist at least as good as Into The Badlands.

It wasn't even as good as early Power Rangers.

An easy fix would be to have Stark give him a suit so a talented stunt double can take over.

It was the series they were most unsure of so committed less resources to it.  They were concerned about how whacky the Iron Fist mythos is, firstly because it's so stupid they worried it would turn off audiences, right siren to his costume, and secondly because it's the kind of thing that gets expensive fast, so they wrote a chopped down version of his origin, only hinting at his early life, and write subplots that focused on the extended family side of things, and severely cut back his powers (by suggesting he doesn't actually know what his powers are, so they could cut down on effects). And then hamfistedly used the show to set up Defenders and tie Iron First to the Hand. Then hired a showrunner known for doing things fast and cheap who had no experience of anything like the thing the character should have been. Then they cast someone who couldn't do martial arts and had no time to train. And then made it really quickly with no time to rehearse fights.

The Netflix shows I understand aren't actually budgeted that highly, comparatively, hence why they tend to do small stories. The problem is, you can do a Daredevil show on no money, his power needs more or less no effects and otherwise it's an acrobatic boxer with faith issues fighting a fat man's goons at night and lawyering by day. Jessica Jones is just a PI who is very strong, you can do what you like besides (hence the first series playing with female abuse). Luke Cage you literally get the Jessica Jones set up and switch 'woman' for 'black guy' and change the window dressing. It's really easy to do cheap.

Iron Fist? Nope, you can't do it cheap and well. Martial arts scenes are expensive, they take ages to choreograph and you need to hire experts to organise them and then usually trained people to do them (or commit the time to train your actors). That is easier to do if your characters are in costumes, but they bottled the outfit so then you're in trouble filming scenes seamlessly with doubles. Then his power is such that every time he uses it is a CGI cost, and additional strains on filming because you need to account for the fact the guy fighting now has a glowing hand, changing the lighting and how you do scenes. And his whole origin is a nightmare of CGI and set costs - he is raised in a mystical Tibet-esque magic city which literally exists on another dimensional plain, and he gains his power after he proves himself to be a great warrior and is chosen to go fight an immortal dragon to take it's energy.

The daft thing with the suit is, you don't need Stark to give him a suit (and that wouldn't happen anyway given Marvel's internal issues between the TV and film seems arms). He has an outfit. It's the outfit of the Iron Fist. And it's not even expensive to do. His best 'looks' are a Bruce Lee style track suit, or bare chested with baggy trousers, always with a yellow half mask bandana over his face. Which is literally the same thing they did with Daredevil in series 1. You can easily do it, and solve a major problem with your fight scenes instantly. It's ridiculous they didn't bother. And yeah he has had some whacky looks, but just don't use one of them. If it's got huge whacky collars, leave it.

Edit - I did write out a whole thing about how to improve Iron Fist without making major changes to the plot, and a way of improving the whole thing by shifting the plot (and making Defenders better in the process) but that part of the post didn't save... I'll come back to it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Chindie

[mikeyp102]

So @Chindie where do you see the MCU going after avengers 4?

I’m thinking the originals will be gone, Cap and Iron man definitely. Obviously we’ll have another guardians, Black Panther and Spider-Man movies after that though? It needs to be something to keep improving and keeping the MCU world fresh 

[ender4]

2 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

So @Chindie where do you see the MCU going after avengers 4?

I’m thinking the originals will be gone, Cap and Iron man definitely. Obviously we’ll have another guardians, Black Panther and Spider-Man movies after that though? It needs to be something to keep improving and keeping the MCU world fresh 

Spiderman is a 5-film deal as part of the MCU.

Avengers 4 is the 4th film he has been in, and Homecoming 2 will be his 5th and final film as part of the MCU.

[ender4]

I'd assume there will be more Captain Marvel films after Avengers 4.

[Chindie]

3 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

So @Chindie where do you see the MCU going after avengers 4?

I’m thinking the originals will be gone, Cap and Iron man definitely. Obviously we’ll have another guardians, Black Panther and Spider-Man movies after that though? It needs to be something to keep improving and keeping the MCU world fresh 

The original Avengers will be retired. Chris Evans has had enough, RDJ is getting too old and has increasingly shifted towards an elder statesman role, especially with the relationship with Spider-Man being one of a mentor. Ruffalo can't get the solo movie he'd fancy and send a bit jaded. Hemsworth increasingly wants to take his career in other directions. I don't expect them all killed off, and some might actually stay on (there's a chance a Black Widow film is in the offing), but there will be a new focus. 

They've attempted to position some characters already. Dr Strange seems to have placed as a similar role to Iron Man, Bucky has history as Cap and the films have hinted at it numerous times, Captain Marvel will come in with the godlike strength of Thor, etc.

A Black Panther sequel is nailed on. Homecoming 2 is in early production, though where they go after they with Spidey is anyone's guess - as ender4 says the deal with Sony is limited. The guess would have to be either Marvel reckons they can renew it or buy out the rights. A Dr Strange sequel is anticipated and is only likely to get closer to announcement as the character has had a boost from Infinity War and Ragnarok. Guardians 3 is on the way.

Beyond that, Marvel will probably look to adapt more obscure characters and play with the even weirder stuff they have. Partly through necessity - they're running out of even minor 'headline' characters. Allegedly they've looked at developing an Eternals film, which is really scraping the barrel. Feige has spoken of looking at doing modern Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan, which I can see happening in a few years. He's also said they have looked at adapting Moon Knight (please). Nova is probably a decent bet as he was a popular edition to a recent Spider-Man cartoon and he joins up with GOTG easily (on the downside, his powers are very similar to Captain Marvel and his purpose very similar to the Lanterns in DC). They might dabble with some of the Marvel UK stuff like Captain Britain, which lets them piss about with both magic, folklore and cosmic nonsense, like they did with Thor but weirder.

I'm quite up for them delving into minor players. There's good stuff to be found and potentially keep things fresh, obviously with the gamble that there's a reason these characters are C tier and you risk people not getting on board. Iron Man, Cap, are very easy to 'get' - billionaire makes high tech armour, good but feeble man is made into the ultimate human as a super soldier. Captain Britain? Dying man becomes hero when Merlin gives him an amulet, and the world of old fashioned folklore magic is real. Moon Knight? Mercenary gets killed in Egypt and is then used as a god's avatar on earth that drives him mad (or does it?) and fights crime like a nuts Batman in white. Both have that extra stage of silly to get past, that extra element of world building to buy into that makes them a little hokey.

So its fairly clear that Phase 4 will have a new Avengers line up. Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, possibly Bucky Cap, Spidey as a sometime member, and probably some new minor members and side teams. It's a key moment for them and why they've tried to organically introduce these new characters to maintain the brand when they walk away from these established names. It could torpedo the whole thing.

And that isn't accounting for possibly getting Fox.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Chindie

[mikeyp102]

9 hours ago, Chindie said:

The original Avengers will be retired. Chris Evans has had enough, RDJ is getting too old and has increasingly shifted towards an elder statesman role, especially with the relationship with Spider-Man being one of a mentor. Ruffalo can't get the solo movie he'd fancy and send a bit jaded. Hemsworth increasingly wants to take his career in other directions. I don't expect them all killed off, and some might actually stay on (there's a chance a Black Widow film is in the offing), but there will be a new focus. 

They've attempted to position some characters already. Dr Strange seems to have placed as a similar role to Iron Man, Bucky has history as Cap and the films have hinted at it numerous times, Captain Marvel will come in with the godlike strength of Thor, etc.

A Black Panther sequel is nailed on. Homecoming 2 is in early production, though where they go after they with Spidey is anyone's guess - as ender4 says the deal with Sony is limited. The guess would have to be either Marvel reckons they can renew it or buy out the rights. A Dr Strange sequel is anticipated and is only likely to get closer to announcement as the character has had a boost from Infinity War and Ragnarok. Guardians 3 is on the way.

Beyond that, Marvel will probably look to adapt more obscure characters and play with the even weirder stuff they have. Partly through necessity - they're running out of even minor 'headline' characters. Allegedly they've looked at developing an Eternals film, which is really scraping the barrel. Feige has spoken of looking at doing modern Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan, which I can see happening in a few years. He's also said they have looked at adapting Moon Knight (please). Nova is probably a decent bet as he was a popular edition to a recent Spider-Man cartoon and he joins up with GOTG easily (on the downside, his powers are very similar to Captain Marvel and his purpose very similar to the Lanterns in DC). They might dabble with some of the Marvel UK stuff like Captain Britain, which lets them piss about with both magic, folklore and cosmic nonsense, like they did with Thor but weirder.

I'm quite up for them delving into minor players. There's good stuff to be found and potentially keep things fresh, obviously with the gamble that there's a reason these characters are C tier and you risk people not getting on board. Iron Man, Cap, are very easy to 'get' - billionaire makes high tech armour, good but feeble man is made into the ultimate human as a super soldier. Captain Britain? Dying man becomes hero when Merlin gives him an amulet, and the world of old fashioned folklore magic is real. Moon Knight? Mercenary gets killed in Egypt and is then used as a god's avatar on earth that drives him mad (or does it?) and fights crime like a nuts Batman in white. Both have that extra stage of silly to get past, that extra element of world building to buy into that makes them a little hokey.

So its fairly clear that Phase 4 will have a new Avengers line up. Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, possibly Bucky Cap, Spidey as a sometime member, and probably some new minor members and side teams. It's a key moment for them and why they've tried to organically introduce these new characters to maintain the brand when they walk away from these established names. It could torpedo the whole thing.

And that isn't accounting for possibly getting Fox.

Thanks. I don’t read comics so it’s interesting someone who do  hearing their thoughts.

I’ve heard they may be looking into squirrel girl?? Although that may be more tv orientated. Would that come across well?

If the Fox thing goes through do you think they’ll throw in X Men? I’m not really sure how they’d cross with Avengers, would seem too much going on. 

I think they’ll definitely look at extending the Spider-Man contract as he works so well with them. And the acting has been fantastic from Holland.

Personally I think they won’t kill off Thor. The last couple of appearances, seem to have developed the humour side of the character and can see them having him turn up every now and then just for that. 

[Chindie]

49 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Thanks. I don’t read comics so it’s interesting someone who do  hearing their thoughts.

I’ve heard they may be looking into squirrel girl?? Although that may be more tv orientated. Would that come across well?

If the Fox thing goes through do you think they’ll throw in X Men? I’m not really sure how they’d cross with Avengers, would seem too much going on. 

I think they’ll definitely look at extending the Spider-Man contract as he works so well with them. And the acting has been fantastic from Holland.

Personally I think they won’t kill off Thor. The last couple of appearances, seem to have developed the humour side of the character and can see them having him turn up every now and then just for that. 

They are looking at doing Squirrel Girl, as part of a New Warriors comedy show. The New Warriors are basically like Avengers Junior, and usually has a load of really obscure characters in it (Nova being the most well known, which says everything). Squirrel Girl to my knowledge hasn't actually ever been involved with them but it's probably the best place to shove her if you want to do the character and have her in a team up series. She's a completely stupid character that the writers have never really known how to use, shes usually been turned into a gag - they had a long running joke of her defeating iconic villains in weird ways. Famously she beat Thanos years ago. She had a bit of a resurgence when Marvel did their comic reboot of 'All New, All Different' and gave her her own comic, the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, which people seemed to like. Apparently it's funny and well written, fit a book about a dumpy teenage girl with a **** dumb power.

The New Warriors hasn't actually been picked up as far as I'm aware though so no idea what will happen to it. The line up of characters wasn't great and Marvel TV is all over the place. It wouldn't actually have much impact on the MCU generally because the film arm won't let it. Hence why all the TV shows basically have the window dressing from the films and **** all else. You'd think Stark would be interested in the fact there's a bullet proof strong bloke down the road from Stark Tower... Either way don't expect much from Squirrel Girl. She's a comedy character and it's taken years for any writer to do anything interesting with her. A comedy team up show isn't going to do anything but make her a shit gag.

If the Fox goes through they will definitely being in the X-Men. The X-Men comic has been one of Marvel's biggest forever. It's so big that when they had the fallout with Fox, they choose to change the X-Men so they could keep the comic going, unlike Fantastic 4, where they ultimately cancelled it. If they get the rights, the X-Men are coming in. It overnight gives them dozens of characters, a great many of which are top tier, and gives them a new Avengers style team instantly. A lot of the characters can carry their own series as well, in the case of Wolverine more than one series if you play up the Old Man Logan arc, which is basically it's own thing.

How it ties in is more difficult. There's been crossovers in the comics various times, there's even been Avengers v X-Men stuff, so they work together, and there's crossover in the membership - Wolverine has been an Avenger more than a few times for instance (then again at this point everyone has been an Avenger). There's also been times where the X-Men have kinda sat out crossover events - from what I remember they didn't do a great deal in Civil War. I'd guess they would do an origin of the X-Men, either have it be a case of mutants having been in the world mostly unnoticed and have some event trigger Xavier to form the X-Men or have something happen that makes mutants appear in the population.

I'm not the biggest X-Men fan in truth. I like some X-Men characters - Wolverine is a great character when written well, and Old Man Logan is excellent, Magneto is a superb villain for instance - but I tend to find their storylines are too overwrought and they return to the prejudice well too often.

So the big thing for me from any deal with Fox is getting the other bits and bobs. Especially villains. So many of Marvel's best top tier villains are tied up in the Fox rights, and so many of them Fox has buggered up it'd be great to see them done well with the rest of the Marvel stable on board.

[Chindie]

Series 2 of Luke Cage out today and err... Nobody gives a ****.

Guess it's an excuse to go back to Jessica Jones series 2, which I never bothered with. Tennant was such a dominant figure in the first series I'm not sure the second can live up to his absence.

[villa4europe]

no JJ2 is a bit boring from what i can remember (me not even remembering most of it says a lot)

saw a couple of Luke Cage reviews, IGN gave it a 4.5 and said it was a mis step, i will get round to it at some point but i think even up the defenders i smashed my way through it opening weekend, this i will start in a few weeks and take my time with

[Chindie]

I probably won't bother with Luke Cage series 2 in all honesty. I really, really dislike the first series and I've doubts this will be much better.

[Designer1]

From the few reviews I've read so far it seems Luke Cage s2 is an improvement on 1.

Fwiw I thought Jessica Jones s2 was fine btw. It missed Kilgrave but I liked the more character driven approach to the second series (and I really really like the JJ character).

[rjw63]

People will get bored of all this stuff eventually.

 

[villa4europe]

i think the films have such success behind them it would take a crazy run of flops for it to turn, TV series on the other hand is already well on its way, not sure what netflix's viewing figures are like but the reviews are definitely sliding

had a quick look, i think the defenders had 17% of daredevils viewership and had a week by week drop off percentage of 67%, 48% and 41% for the first month

Edited June 22, 2018 by villa4europe

[sne]

While the movies show the big events, or at least the build up to them, the TV shows most revolves around everyday life. And that is seldom very interesting.

The TV shows has  to be very well made or something new and exciting for them to work. They just don't have the budget to be epic.

Sure there are good small story arcs to tell (I assume?)

But this episode "Jessica Jones goes to the dentist" isn't gonna keep people at the edge of their seats.

Fwiw i quite liked the first seasons of JJ, DD and The Punisher. But that's about it.

 

[Chindie]

Netflix has definitely made mistakes. 

The main one has been insisting on 13 episode runs for the solo series. This has meant every show, bar perhaps the Punisher, has had mid season lulls and spent too long getting going. The shows would benefit from dropping the series to 10 episodes at the most. This would also benefit them in getting more out of the budget.

The length isn't helped by the characters they're using. I'm not the biggest fan of Jessica Jones or Cage in the comics, but to my knowledge neither has many stories to mine - and in the case of Jones, she barely has any rogues gallery of villains either. Daredevil has a bunch of stories to crib from, and Iron Fist has a handful you can adapt or nick ideas from. They each have arcs that you can adapt to TV, fairly easily in Daredevil's case as all his best stories are quite personal, to do with his faith, and how his double life impacts him and the people around him. Iron Fist is more difficult but with more time and money than they went with first time, doable. With Jones and Cage you end up doing more generalised stuff, which is fine but can feel even more thinly spread, or makes the hero stuff or other themes you want to play with feel like window dressing.

They also made a mistake in the choice of overarching storyline, the Hand. You can see what they tried to do, but the Hand aren't good as a threat for more than a series really, and they really messed up by not having them have a dangerous figurehead leader. The choice they ultimately made, having the Hand being lead by, effectively, a bunch of evil suits, some of which can fight a bit, was rubbish. Especially when it came to the Defenders. Shoehorning Elektra in there doesn't help either.

They made poor choices in writing and then spread them over too large a canvas in short.

[Dodgyknees]

Spot on, Chindie.

[Chindie]

Ant-Man and the Wasp initial reactions are very very positive. Evangeline Lilly seems to steal the show, and the film is described as very fun and very funny, remaining as it's own little thing in the MCU whilst acknowledging the other films and how it interacts with them. It also apparently ties in with Avengers 4 and has at least 1 very good post credit scene.

Unfortunately it isn't it out here until August, because of the World Cup.

[Demitri_C]

On 17/06/2018 at 01:18, Chindie said:

The original Avengers will be retired. Chris Evans has had enough, RDJ is getting too old and has increasingly shifted towards an elder statesman role, especially with the relationship with Spider-Man being one of a mentor. Ruffalo can't get the solo movie he'd fancy and send a bit jaded. Hemsworth increasingly wants to take his career in other directions. I don't expect them all killed off, and some might actually stay on (there's a chance a Black Widow film is in the offing), but there will be a new focus. 

They've attempted to position some characters already. Dr Strange seems to have placed as a similar role to Iron Man, Bucky has history as Cap and the films have hinted at it numerous times, Captain Marvel will come in with the godlike strength of Thor, etc.

A Black Panther sequel is nailed on. Homecoming 2 is in early production, though where they go after they with Spidey is anyone's guess - as ender4 says the deal with Sony is limited. The guess would have to be either Marvel reckons they can renew it or buy out the rights. A Dr Strange sequel is anticipated and is only likely to get closer to announcement as the character has had a boost from Infinity War and Ragnarok. Guardians 3 is on the way.

Beyond that, Marvel will probably look to adapt more obscure characters and play with the even weirder stuff they have. Partly through necessity - they're running out of even minor 'headline' characters. Allegedly they've looked at developing an Eternals film, which is really scraping the barrel. Feige has spoken of looking at doing modern Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan, which I can see happening in a few years. He's also said they have looked at adapting Moon Knight (please). Nova is probably a decent bet as he was a popular edition to a recent Spider-Man cartoon and he joins up with GOTG easily (on the downside, his powers are very similar to Captain Marvel and his purpose very similar to the Lanterns in DC). They might dabble with some of the Marvel UK stuff like Captain Britain, which lets them piss about with both magic, folklore and cosmic nonsense, like they did with Thor but weirder.

I'm quite up for them delving into minor players. There's good stuff to be found and potentially keep things fresh, obviously with the gamble that there's a reason these characters are C tier and you risk people not getting on board. Iron Man, Cap, are very easy to 'get' - billionaire makes high tech armour, good but feeble man is made into the ultimate human as a super soldier. Captain Britain? Dying man becomes hero when Merlin gives him an amulet, and the world of old fashioned folklore magic is real. Moon Knight? Mercenary gets killed in Egypt and is then used as a god's avatar on earth that drives him mad (or does it?) and fights crime like a nuts Batman in white. Both have that extra stage of silly to get past, that extra element of world building to buy into that makes them a little hokey.

So its fairly clear that Phase 4 will have a new Avengers line up. Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, possibly Bucky Cap, Spidey as a sometime member, and probably some new minor members and side teams. It's a key moment for them and why they've tried to organically introduce these new characters to maintain the brand when they walk away from these established names. It could torpedo the whole thing.

And that isn't accounting for possibly getting Fox.

Good post.

But i won't watch a avengers film if that's who the team will consist of. It's like watching aston villa reserves instead if Aston villa.

Mrs marvel is rather meh for me.

[wazzap24]

On 22/06/2018 at 22:30, rjw63 said:

People will get bored of all this stuff eventually.

 

I 'spose that's down to your definition of 'eventually'. 

It hasn't even peaked yet imo. 

They'll be around for at least another decade. 

[mikeyp102]

Apparently currently planning movies into and including 2025, with the likely 3 a year to continue.

Kevin Feige has said that some characters will be back in a different form... Winter soldier- Cap? And that their will be some lesser known characters from comics turned into movies..