Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Chindie]

Well that's 3 episodes of Iron Fist series 2 down.

I didn't hate the first series like most did but it was definitely flawed. The first 3 episodes of the second series are better than anything in the first. The fight scenes are much better, it's getting straight to the point, it's far less messy with an overt villain straight off the bat. It looks more expensive, and kinda oddly makes the first series look amateurish.

I also kinda like that they appear to have decided to tackle the silly race criticism of the first series by setting the show in Chinatown and seemingly hiring every East Asian actor on the US East Coast. This also has a nice side effect - each of the shows now focuses on different parts of Manhattan, I think. Daredevil is mostly Hells Kitchen, Luke Cage obviously Harlem, I believe Jessica Jones is mostly Midtown and Fist is Chinatown.

Bodes well.

Criticisms - the fight scenes still aren't as good as they should be. Mostly because Iron Fist is meant to be an insanely good martial artist. Bruce Lee on speed. They haven't quite got that, and probably never will. But the fight scenes are undoubtedly better and all round pretty good so far.

The lack of the costume. I might just complain about this forever because they're never going to do what I want them to. They did do a nice nod to it in the second episode but still. Him wearing a hoody and a mask over his mouth isn't good enough. Aja style jump suit and mask. Now.

The Fist. Iron Fist's power isn't limited to a single fist. For the love of all that is holy, I hope by the end of the show he is doing more than lighting up his right fist.

I don't like the Mary character and never have. They might do something interesting with her bit right now... nah. Also Alice Eve looks haggard. Obviously she's getting older but I can only imagine she's had a tough few years or the makeup team for this were doing her no favours at all.

There's also some absolutely leaden dialogue.

But all in all... It's pretty good. Upper mid tier so far for Marvel Netflix stuff. It's remarkable what spending a few quid, taking a bit more time to prepare and hiring a showrunner who isn't renowned for banging out crap fast and cheap does.

[villa4europe]

i think you might be happy at the end but im not telling you why 

and i agree with the chinatown comment, i thought that as i watched it too, defined part of the city for him to look after, edging towards the harlem and proud nature of luke cage

Edited September 18, 2018 by villa4europe

[mikeyp102]

I liked the look of the Captain Marvel trailer. As marvel haven’t said who Jude Law is playing, it looks like he may not actually be Ma Vel

 

[Chindie]

 

[Chindie]

Marvel has confirmed that they will be working on some MCU limited series for Disney's streaming service that is coming soon. Interestingly (or not) these will be made by the movie division of Marvel, not the TV side of things. This is a good thing. The TV division is run by different people and the 2 divisions don't get on at all. The TV division has a very mixed record. The Netflix stuff is mostly good, everything else is... Shrug. This has also meant there is a weird disconnect in the MCU, where the movies dictate the world and there is exceedingly little real crossover between the mediums - the TV stuff references stuff from the films in vague ways and nods and winks, and there been 2 cameos I think, and that's it.  With these streaming shows, that shouldn't be the case.

The characters referenced directly for series are Loki and Scarlet Witch. How they do the shows, which they state will be 6 to 8 episodes long, is anyone's guess. The short runs might make bringing in the actual actors possible. And they state they won't be using the really big name characters, so no Cap or Iron Man. So maybe a series with Wanda Maximoff featuring Olsen could happen?

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Filling gaps with existing characters always feels a bit token. It only ever vaguely works as prequels, preferably as far away from the established canon as possible, and even then it always feels wrong somehow. I'm also really not interested in getting a Disney subscription.

Of course I'll eat my words when they reveal this is their Moon Knight vehicle.

[villa4europe]

the cynic in me says scarlet witch tv show they want more female leads but know she wont carry a film 

[mikeyp102]

Not sure on the Scarlett Witch series as her character isn’t great. Loki on the other hand could be very good, apparently Hiddleston has said he will do it.

[Chindie]

On 18/09/2018 at 20:01, Designer1 said:

Interested to know your thoughts when finished. The last episode threw up a wtf moment that led me to doing a bit of research. As you're far more knowledgeable on Marvel you'll probably understand it straight away.

Finished the second series of Iron Fist.

I think at this point I've accepted that the series isn't the show I want it to be and never will. So the places the series goes don't irritate me like they would otherwise.

So with that in mind, it's a good series. It improves the first series everywhere it needs to. The fight scenes are far better. The length is right, it's far less baggy than every other Marvel series and the only lag that arrives is very much down to the plot. Everyone is far better served by the plot here and it even manages to tackle some of the rougher stuff from series 1. It benefits from getting away from the Hand nonsense of the first series and having a more defined villain in Davos. It's a different take on the character, inspired by the original but made a bit more flawed and certainly more tragic. The Meachums are far better. Danny is less gap year word removed. Colleen is still great.

As for where the series goes... Colleen becoming the Iron Fist hasn't happened before to my knowledge, but given she's the best thing in the show and has the best fight scenes, I suspect the writing team were not too slow in making the jump. I think she can extend chi to her sword in the comics, without the Fist, but for a TV show giving her a really clear way of doing that makes sense.

Danny losing the Fist isn't new, and the show increasingly seemed as it went on to hint at exploring the mythology of the Iron Fist. The pirate queen is an old Iron Fist in the comics, for instance. And then at the end the show straight up confirms that's where they want to go. Which is cool because there's a shitload of mythology in the best run of Iron Fist there's ever been, the Brubaker run with Aja art (giving us the best costume he's ever had too...). The final revelation, of Danny with the guns, is straight up a call out to those issues. Orson Randall is mentioned - he was an older Iron Fist, the first outsider of K'un-Lun to become the Fist, and a flawed character to say the least. He's bitter and slightly broken. In the comics he fought in WW1 and effectively gets a kind of PTSD from it, and subsequently flees his duty and becomes a junky hanging around seedy parts of the Far East. He's also connected to Rand, and for all intents and purposes he starts the ball rolling that sees Danny become the Iron Fist. The pistols Danny has at the end (and Danny's whole look in the finale in truth) are Randall's. He developed a fighting style when he left K'un-Lun that utilized guns - though from what I remember it didn't extend to him 'powering up' the guns with the Fist. I've no idea how they're explaining  that.

One of the cooler things, for me anyway, that Randall's inclusion opens up is another chance to explore the idea that there's more than 1 mystical city. The Brubaker run is mostly concerned with Danny needing to take part in a tournament of the 8 Heavenly Cities, Rand representing K'un-Lun in a knock out fight against representatives of other mystical cities who each have their own 'Immortal Weapon', each with their own weird powers (one, for instance, basically manifests spiders). The best episode in the first series was a homage to this, right down to the spider woman, but done half-arsed and rushed. Randall has history with the tournament himself and that is a significant part of his background and development.

I hope they do go that far into the mythos, because not only is it a big chunk of the best material there is of Iron Fist, it also is some of the more interesting stuff there is. It makes it more than magic Bruce Lee punches ninjas and Yakuza.

Unfortunately I don't think they will. One thing I would stake my last penny on though, is that Randall starts out as a villain and quickly becomes an ally. Might even get the **** costume in the show too...

If they make a third series that is. It's not certain by any means.

[ender4]

On 21/09/2018 at 07:06, mikeyp102 said:

Not sure on the Scarlett Witch series as her character isn’t great. Loki on the other hand could be very good, apparently Hiddleston has said he will do it.

yeah agree, Scarlett Witch is meh.     Loki is amazing. 

[mikeyp102]

Talk of Hugh Jackman looking to do Wolverine again now that Marvel have taken over Fox and now come under MCU. Whilst he has been the shining light of the X Men and his own films as Wolverine I think it’s time for new blood to take on the role. Who, I don’t know, but think it needs to be younger blood. 

[Chindie]

Some new shots of Spider-Man from the Far From Home filming have appeared that might reveal something of the post-Avengers 4 MCU... Pics spoilered.

Spoiler

There were some earlier pictures that showed that Parker would be wearing a black suit seemingly inspired by his stealth suit (mostly in that its black but not the Symbiote), but this shot reveals a bit more. For a start it's more like tactical body armour than a suit we'd expect from Spider-Man. The head having separate goggles is very Noir style, and the whole get up is probably what you'd expect if you made the Noir comics in a modern setting, which is cool.  

What might be most interesting though is the badge on the vest. It's very difficult to make it but it looks a fair bit like a SHIELD logo. After Winter Soldier SHIELD largely disappears from the films, so it may be the case that the events of Avengers 4 reset the world - either with SHIELD reforming under new leadership, or perhaps with the events of Winter Soldier not happening...

Some other shots turned up of Mysterio in a surprisingly comic accurate outfit, minus the fishbowl unfortunately. Hopefully he'll actually wear that at some point, otherwise it's not really Mysterio... But then why hire Gylenhaal if you're putting his head in a smoke filled bowl for most of his screen time?

[mikeyp102]

On 02/10/2018 at 14:35, Chindie said:

Some new shots of Spider-Man from the Far From Home filming have appeared that might reveal something of the post-Avengers 4 MCU... Pics spoilered.

  Hide contents

There were some earlier pictures that showed that Parker would be wearing a black suit seemingly inspired by his stealth suit (mostly in that its black but not the Symbiote), but this shot reveals a bit more. For a start it's more like tactical body armour than a suit we'd expect from Spider-Man. The head having separate goggles is very Noir style, and the whole get up is probably what you'd expect if you made the Noir comics in a modern setting, which is cool.  

What might be most interesting though is the badge on the vest. It's very difficult to make it but it looks a fair bit like a SHIELD logo. After Winter Soldier SHIELD largely disappears from the films, so it may be the case that the events of Avengers 4 reset the world - either with SHIELD reforming under new leadership, or perhaps with the events of Winter Soldier not happening...

Some other shots turned up of Mysterio in a surprisingly comic accurate outfit, minus the fishbowl unfortunately. Hopefully he'll actually wear that at some point, otherwise it's not really Mysterio... But then why hire Gylenhaal if you're putting his head in a smoke filled bowl for most of his screen time?

Spoiler

Are we sure that’s Spidey though? There’s no spider on the outfit. Looks similar to ghosts outfit from Antman and a Wasp so perhaps it’s something to do with that

 

[villa4europe]

that looks **** awesome

[Chindie]

Daredevil v Bullseye then...

[Chindie]

12 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Are we sure that’s Spidey though? There’s no spider on the outfit. Looks similar to ghosts outfit from Antman and a Wasp so perhaps it’s something to do with that

 

The goggles are definitely Spider-Man style and he has Peter's webshooters it seems.

There was a rumour that there would be another villain in the film, which would make sense if it isn't Parker

Spoiler

The Chameleon

but having him then fight Mysterio seems a bit overly complicated. Also you'd guess he would actually pointedly look like Spider-Man if he was trying to incriminate him, rather than wear a weird tactical outfit.

Plus it makes sense that Parker would go stealthy for his European trip - Peter's school goes on a field trip and suddenly Spider-Man shows up everywhere he goes? Hmm...

[mikeyp102]

58 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The goggles are definitely Spider-Man style and he has Peter's webshooters it seems.

There was a rumour that there would be another villain in the film, which would make sense if it isn't Parker

  Reveal hidden contents

The Chameleon

but having him then fight Mysterio seems a bit overly complicated. Also you'd guess he would actually pointedly look like Spider-Man if he was trying to incriminate him, rather than wear a weird tactical outfit.

Plus it makes sense that Parker would go stealthy for his European trip - Peter's school goes on a field trip and suddenly Spider-Man shows up everywhere he goes? Hmm...

Fair enough, you know a lot more of the characters than me.

As for the second villain you mentioned..

Spoiler

I heard rumours, that the end of the film will start setting up the Sinister 6, ready for a big showdown in Spider-Man  3 (Sony allowing obviously) 

 

[Chindie]

Looks like Chris Evans is finally done with being Cap. Tweeted what very much looked like a goodbye to the role earlier coinciding with his finishing filming for Avengers 4.

It's not a shock - his contact is up and he was supposedly talking about being done with the role around Age of Ultron, and the recent films I believe came from a chunky renewed contract - but he's going to be a big miss for the series. He embodied Steve Rogers. Marvel's casting has been bang on and the original lineup really are those characters at this point, but Evans was absolutely perfect as Cap.

You have to suspect this won't be the last retirement for the series.

I still think the phase 4 films will be about establishing a new Avengers lineup, and suspect they'll try to replace the Cap character, either by following the comics and doing Bucky Cap (which they've nodded and winked at) or by using a new character. The obvious bet is Captain Marvel, because she's had 'Cap' style roles in recent years, like Civil War 2, but I guess they could position someone else for it... Black Panther perhaps.

Going forward we could have an Avengers lineup of Black Panther, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel and Bucky Cap, with Ant-man and the Wasp and Spider-Man filling in. And presumably other new faces to fill out the roster...

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Going forward we could have an Avengers lineup of Black Panther, Dr Strange, Captain Marvel and Bucky Cap, with Ant-man and the Wasp and Spider-Man filling in. And presumably other new faces to fill out the roster...

i would guess that they hold tight at the moment and see how the sale develops, do they stretch it now with a 2nd / 3rd tier character or see if they get to integrate some top tier ones that they dont currently own?

before they stretch it and try and get nova in or namor (really with his history im surprised namor isnt in there yet) adam warlock (GotG 3) moon knight, captain britain etc do they just wait for xmen and fantastic 4 to be given to them

[Chindie]

17 hours ago, villa4europe said:

i would guess that they hold tight at the moment and see how the sale develops, do they stretch it now with a 2nd / 3rd tier character or see if they get to integrate some top tier ones that they dont currently own?

before they stretch it and try and get nova in or namor (really with his history im surprised namor isnt in there yet) adam warlock (GotG 3) moon knight, captain britain etc do they just wait for xmen and fantastic 4 to be given to them

In fairness they've got time to introduce characters and see what sticks before they go to do another Avengers. 

I'm fairly sure they will keep X-Men/F4 and the Avengers seperate when they bring them in. The comics have a precedent for crossover in the teams (Wolverine has been an Avenger fairly often for instance) but I think they'll try and keep a clear distinction between the teams, just for the sake of ease if anything, and preventing things getting messy.

As for other characters, I think I could see some coming in, and I could also see them establishing other teams. I don't think, for instance, they'd ever put Moon Knight in as an Avenger, unless they interpreted the character much differently to how he is portrayed these days. He's too weird with the whole 'he might just be crazy' thing, and the avatar of an Egyptian god thing, and he's usually shown as being quite brutal. But I could see him as part of a darker team up, perhaps a supernatural/paranormal team with someone like Blade, a bit like the DC Justice League Dark. His original run is actually not that far removed from the stuff Blade was doing - horror tinged stuff. Iirc the Moon Knight first issue had him up against a werewolf.

Equally, Captain Britain could become an Avenger (and he has been many times), but he's also got history with his own teams, Excalibur and MI13. Excalibur being basically British X-Men and MI13 British Avengers, tending to deal with more mystical threats.

I really think there's some merit with them diversifying the teams. The Avengers evolves and around that they add in others. GOTG has an already done it, although that is an easier sell as they're space based, and pursuing an Eternals film suggests they want more teams.

Incidentally Namor can't happen currently. Universal picked up the Namor rights when they got the Hulk ones. However it seems that that deal has somehow got more complicated than the Hulk one, with other parties also being implicated in it and supposedly the whole thing is so complicated the character is basically in limbo. Marvel want the character back and there's open desire to get the Submariner in a film, but it seems like there are too many interests involved with varied degrees of wanting to rescind their rights. The Hulk deal was/is bad enough and that only featured Universal.

It's an interesting time though. There's potentially a huge shift coming up.

[Chindie]

Iron Fist has been cancelled. A shame, the second series definitely had the show going in the right direction but it looks like the mistakes of the first series were an unrecoverable blow.