Villarocker Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Personally, I think this thread should be closed until after the last game we play this season. Not that I'm a fan of Bruce's - I just think of it out of respect for the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: This might be your first post that I think is nonsensical. When exactly would you fire an employee if not when/if they failed to reach the goal? There are loads of reasons why I might not only not fire them but could even reward them. Pit totally depends on their performance and the reasons for their failure. I don’t want to argue with someone who has just said I’ve only done one nonsensical post !...but that seems absolutely obvious to me. To reference just my own career I’ve missed innumerable targets, as well as surpassing them, and I’ve had staff do both as well. I can’t think of a single occasion when missing the target was considered the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, villarocker said: Personally, I think this thread should be closed until after the last game we play this season. Not that I'm a fan of Bruce's - I just think of it out of respect for the man. I’d agree but I’m pretty sure he has bette4bthings to do than read our witterings ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 5 hours ago, terrytini said: I’m glad you weren’t my boss then......setting a target is one thing....very sensible.....Sacking somebody simply because they don’t reach it - which is clearly what you are inferring - is bonkers. Well, that is exactly what I do with contractors. They are on a three month contract, meet their targets, get renewed. Don't meet them, don't get renewed. Simple. Nothing bonkers about it at all. What would be bonkers would be just accepting failure because we did alright and almost met the targets. Now permanent staff would get help to improve their performance, but if they failed continually, they would be let go or reassigned to a less demanding role (all following due legal process of course). Why did I mention contractors - that's the closest analogy to Steve Bruce. So yes, I would get rid of him. Nothing bonkers about that at all. You needn't worry about me being your boss. I would never employ you, based on your views of what is bonkers, or your apparent view that failure is acceptable. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 5 hours ago, terrytini said: There are loads of reasons why I might not only not fire them but could even reward them. Pit totally depends on their performance and the reasons for their failure. I don’t want to argue with someone who has just said I’ve only done one nonsensical post !...but that seems absolutely obvious to me. To reference just my own career I’ve missed innumerable targets, as well as surpassing them, and I’ve had staff do both as well. I can’t think of a single occasion when missing the target was considered the be all and end all. Ok, with that clarity I understand you better. Your perfect record of making sense is intact. ( I didn’t say you were always right, just that you make sense, so don’t go gettin all swole headed.). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, terrytini said: I can’t think of a single occasion when missing the target was considered the be all and end all. Perhaps if you were bought in as an expert in a field to do one job, and only one. One target and you miss it......? Now we may go up through the playoffs and I sincerely hope we do, so Bruce hasn't missed his target yet. But to go back to the staff I employ, I monitor their progress to make sure they are performing, and looking like they will hit their targets and don't wait until is is all finished to see how it went. At the moment, Bruce would look shaky on that measure. Edited April 22, 2018 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 7 hours ago, TheStagMan said: Well, that is exactly what I do with contractors. They are on a three month contract, meet their targets, get renewed. Don't meet them, don't get renewed. Simple. Nothing bonkers about it at all. What would be bonkers would be just accepting failure because we did alright and almost met the targets. Now permanent staff would get help to improve their performance, but if they failed continually, they would be let go or reassigned to a less demanding role (all following due legal process of course). Why did I mention contractors - that's the closest analogy to Steve Bruce. So yes, I would get rid of him. Nothing bonkers about that at all. You needn't worry about me being your boss. I would never employ you, based on your views of what is bonkers, or your apparent view that failure is acceptable. :-) Fair point, but I'm sure you'd have a contractor lined up who could meet your deadlines. I'm not sure there is anyone who would be a guaranteed improvement on a manager who will achieve probably 85 points. We can pull names out of the hat, but who realistically is coming here with little money to spend. Bruce is our permanent manager, we should support him to improve performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Lets face it, we are going to have 'Manager out!' threads for as long as we are out of the Premier League. Aston Villa fans have a certain level of expectation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xela Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: Lets face it, we are going to have 'Manager out!' threads for as long as we are out of the Premier League. Aston Villa fans have a certain level of expectation. We wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the Premier League! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Xela said: We wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the Premier League! It was, as I recall, a different subset that made up that “we” but yeah, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Xela said: We wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the Premier League! It always feels like Villa back the wrong man financially. When we have a man that could potentially do an ok job with resources the money has already dried up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Xela said: We wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the Premier League! Thats a pretty one dimensional and frankly inaccurate view of it. They probably "wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the League" because at the time we had the chance, as well as resources to be finishing in the TOP 4, with some better decision making, signing and football wise. Similarly to how some have wanted Bruce out because they feel we have had resources to finish top 2. Just as how the average neutral outsider will call Arsenal fans ungrateful when the fact of the matter is Arsenal should always be challenging for the Title and Top 4 at very minimum. You make it seem as if people were just moaning for moaning sake. Our current situation rings similar in the fact that if we don't get promoted it might have been another opportunity wasted to strike while the iron is hot. The true test will be how and IF we can bounce back from such an eventuality this time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Stratvillan said: Fair point, but I'm sure you'd have a contractor lined up who could meet your deadlines. I'm not sure there is anyone who would be a guaranteed improvement on a manager who will achieve probably 85 points. We can pull names out of the hat, but who realistically is coming here with little money to spend. Bruce is our permanent manager, we should support him to improve performance. True enough, and I would have contingency plans as I should know if someone is not meeting/unlikely to meet their targets - one would hope that the club would also have plans in place - but this is Villa so it's not guaranteed. Personal viewpoint is that Bruce should go at the end of this season - hopefully with a thank you for getting us promoted. He is not a manager for building something in the premier league, he is a manger for fingernails survival in the prem, and has failed at that a few times. Whatever happens, we will need to rebuild in the summer - hopefully in the prem, and if so the summer will show us the extent of the good doctors ambition. If we do not go up, we should not assume that the status quo will be maintained. We would likely loose a couple of our key players. Terry, Kodjia, Grealish, Chester, Snoddy, will all be in other teams radars. I would like to think we could keep some of them but we will not go into next season with the team/squad that finishes this one. I am praying that the summer activity is building our prem team rather than fighting off the vultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Thats a pretty one dimensional and frankly inaccurate view of it. They probably "wanted the manager out when we were finishing 6th in the League" because at the time we had the chance, as well as resources to be finishing in the TOP 4, with some better decision making, signing and football wise. Similarly to how some have wanted Bruce out because they feel we have had resources to finish top 2. Just as how the average neutral outsider will call Arsenal fans ungrateful when the fact of the matter is Arsenal should always be challenging for the Title and Top 4 at very minimum. You make it seem as if people were just moaning for moaning sake. Our current situation rings similar in the fact that if we don't get promoted it might have been another opportunity wasted to strike while the iron is hot. The true test will be how and IF we can bounce back from such an eventuality this time. It was a throwaway comment, no need to be so serious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: It always feels like Villa back the wrong man financially. When we have a man that could potentially do an ok job with resources the money has already dried up. Who was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: Who was that? Remi Garde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 minute ago, TheStagMan said: Remi Garde? Gérard Houllier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Remi Garde? I did think you meant Lambert for a second... Edit: Sorry, thought you were the poster who orginally made that point. Garde's reign wil always be difficult to judge given when he was appointed. Wrong place wrong time I'm afraid. Edited April 22, 2018 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 What’s Garde doing these days? Did he ever return to management or did his experience with us put him off for life? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted April 22, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22, 2018 On 21/04/2018 at 19:47, TheStagMan said: I'm pretty sure that the pre season target was automatic promotion.and given our squad it certainly should have been. That has not been achieved barring a miracle. I'm glad you are not my employee. I expect excellence from my well paid staff, not whinging and excuses. Scraping by is not acceptable. think this is where the fanbase will disagree. unless someone can prove me wrong, i dont believe bruces official minimum target this season was revealed to be automatic promotion. any interviews i saw pre season was just simply 'promotion'. the debate here is around bruce should be sacked even if we get promoted via playoffs...which i just think is just bonkers, because he has achieved his target. i dont call getting promoted via playoffs 'scraping by' as the end result is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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