Stevo985 Posted December 18, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2007 If the universe was in a single point, who or what put that point there. It must have come from somewhere?! I've also heard string theory is on the verge of being completely disproven, but don't quote me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 He also couldn't explain to me how, when on eof the primary laws of physics is energy cannot be just "created", how the big bang happened. What created the energy for such a big bang to happen, and more importantly, where the stuff that eploded and is now infinitely expanding, came from. Surely at some point in time "something was created from nothing", which defies physics. So many questions that I will never know the answer to! Science doesn't have all the answers .... yet. But it has more than it had 50 .. 100..500 years ago. It is constantly learning and wanting to learn and answering bit by bit. The critics of science just keep pointing to the fact that it doesn't have all the answers despite those same critics having absolutely no fact-based answers. Just because we don't have the answers yet doesn't mean we wont have them at some point. We're basically back to the whole God/creationism/'where did it all begin' discussion. I think the 2 threads could nearly be merged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarjei Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 TRL, I was replying to Stevo, but I agree it's not meaningless in that sense. It's an important question, but it's meaningless to give yourself a big headache because there is no guaranteed answer and one can only speculate at this point. The "something from noting" is just as futile also, because we have no clue whatsoever. There might be multiple universes, there might be a creator, or there might be a spaghetti monster or an invisible tea pot in the sky for all we know. If there is no space, is there time? If time didn't exist, how can one ask what was before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 18, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2007 He also couldn't explain to me how, when on eof the primary laws of physics is energy cannot be just "created", how the big bang happened. What created the energy for such a big bang to happen, and more importantly, where the stuff that eploded and is now infinitely expanding, came from. Surely at some point in time "something was created from nothing", which defies physics. So many questions that I will never know the answer to! Science doesn't have all the answers .... yet. But it has more than it had 50 .. 100..500 years ago. It is constantly learning and wanting to learn and answering bit by bit. The critics of science just keep pointing to the fact that it doesn't have all the answers despite those same critics having absolutely no fact-based answers. Just because we don't have the answers yet doesn't mean we wont have them at some point. We're basically back to the whole God/creationism/'where did it all begin' discussion. I think the 2 threads could nearly be merged I wasn't criticising science, merely pointing out things I didn't know. But yes, Science will eventually know. To quote MIB "A thousand years ago everybody knew as a fact, that the earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on it. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." Ok the aliens bit is wrong, but they make a good point! In our universe, something can't be created from nothing, but maybe outside our universe, if there is such a place, something can be created from nothing.... I think I'll come up with a book full of loads of scientific theories. They'll have no evidence to back them up, but it would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 I was kind of backing you up, not 'taking you on' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 18, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2007 I was kind of backing you up, not 'taking you on' I know....thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 In our universe, something can't be created from nothing, but maybe outside our universe, if there is such a place, something can be created from nothing.... I would always qualify current scientific limitations with 'current knowledge suggests that...' In our universe it is not currently known how something can be created from nothing, but maybe outside our universe, if there is such a place, something can be created from nothing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 and for those interested, CERN are currently undergoing an experiment to find out how things become solid by creating mass from energy in their Large Hadron Collider (LHC). It was supposed to happen November jusrt gone, but I see from that Wiki page that it's now May '08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahamaad Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 In our universe it is not currently known how something can be created from nothing, but maybe outside our universe, if there is such a place, something can be created from nothing.... But what is this 'nothing' - I asked this earler and was told it was the equivalent of going to the south pole. Which suggests the Universe is spherical. But if you went to the South pole and fired yourself up in a rocket you'd end up in space. Are these scientists just making a guess at what exists outside the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted December 18, 2007 Administrator Share Posted December 18, 2007 All points in the universe have energy. Even the bits that appear to contain "nothing" in fact contain energy. Energy and mass are equivalent and state fluctuations can occur while the universe has temperature. There is no outside of the universe or I would say that the "nothing" outside the universe is not the same as the "nothing" in the apparently empty bits inside the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBoy Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Going back to the question of '"intelligent life" beyond Earth, who is to say that in the grand scheme of things humans are intelligent? Other distant life forms may be well aware of us and consider us to be really quite simple creatures, much like we look at ants, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 Could well do, JB. And who's to say there isn't intelligence that isn't purely electrical or non-physically manifested. After all, in our own oceans we have life that doesn't have a central brain, showing that there's even diversity in the types of intelligence on our own planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 and for those interested, CERN are currently undergoing an experiment to find out how things become solid by creating mass from energy in their Large Hadron Collider (LHC). It was supposed to happen November jusrt gone, but I see from that Wiki page that it's now May '08. Warning, may in some cases cause the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yup, there is an actual risk of that happening believe it or not TheDon. It really is a fascinating thing to get engrossed in. I saw a documentary on it back in the summer - I think it was Horizon or Panorama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Aye, something to do with hawking radiation and the possibility of creating mini black holes. But where is science without risk, lets just turn the thing on and see what happens, worst case is I won't have to pay back my overdraft and we'll get to avoid a repeat of this years summer transfer window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 Worst case scenario it'll be over before you know it. No pain, no mortgage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR.Smalljob Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Could be funny to ask General Krulak what he thinks of this matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 There is no outside of the universe or I would say that the "nothing" outside the universe is not the same as the "nothing" in the apparently empty bits inside the universe. Is this the currently prevalent theory then? How did they come to this conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 18, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2007 It's not a conclusion HJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 18, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted December 18, 2007 So I'm standing at the VERY edge of the universe, and I mean as close as I can get to the edge and still be in it. I then put out my arm straight in front of me, i.e. I reach into "nothing". What happens to my arm. Does it disappear, can it not go forward anymore, does it come out of my arse??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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