Popular Post Michael118 Posted February 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2018 THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN CREATED FROM A SERIES OF POSTS IN THE LIBOR KOZAK THREAD - NV One thing I can say with near certainty is over a full season in the Premier League, Team A survives (as a minimum) and wipes the floor with Team B which more than likely gets relegated. (a) Guzan Hutton Okore Clark Amavi/Cissokho Bacuna Gueye Westwood Traore Gil Kozak Manager: Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis (b) Johnstone Elmo Chester Terry Taylor Bjarnason Hourihane Snodgrass Grealish Adomah Hogan Manager: Steve Bruce 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted February 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, Michael118 said: One thing I can say with near certainty is over a full season in the Premier League, Team A survives (as a minimum) and wipes the floor with Team B which more than likely gets relegated. (a) Guzan Hutton Okore Clark Amavi/Cissokho Bacuna Gueye Westwood Traore Gil Kozak Manager: Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis (b) Johnstone Elmo Chester Terry Taylor Bjarnason Hourihane Snodgrass Grealish Adomah Hogan Manager: Steve Bruce I don't believe that the center back pairing on Team A coupled with Guzan in goal is good enough to survive in the PL. Certainly not as strong defensively as Team B. Not quite sure what the point of comparison is though. Is it to pick a random group of players from a certain period in our history (hypothetically managed by someone with nothing to do with us) and compare them to the current team? Seems like a very tenuous way to make a point (and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Michael118 said: One thing I can say with near certainty is over a full season in the Premier League, Team A survives (as a minimum) (a) Guzan Hutton Okore Clark Amavi/Cissokho Bacuna Gueye Westwood Traore Gil Kozak Except it didn't, did it? Thats 90% the team that was actually relegated. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted February 16, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2018 Didn't we literally have all of those players when we got relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 16, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Michael118 said: One thing I can say with near certainty is over a full season in the Premier League, Team A survives (as a minimum) and wipes the floor with Team B which more than likely gets relegated. (a) Guzan Hutton Okore Clark Amavi/Cissokho Bacuna Gueye Westwood Traore Gil Kozak Manager: Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis (b) Johnstone Elmo Chester Terry Taylor Bjarnason Hourihane Snodgrass Grealish Adomah Hogan Manager: Steve Bruce Firstly, why are you comparing a team we had in the Premier League with a team we have in the Championship? What's the purpose of that? Secondly, I'm not even sure you're right. The first team is largely made up of the players we had when we got relegated. it was one of the worst premier league teams ever. How attractive you find each player doesn't change the fact that most of them weren't very good. The second team is currently the best team in the Championship, and while Wolves can claim to be the best team over the course of the season in the Championship, I don't think it's unfair to say we are definitely in the top 2 or 3 teams in this league. I think there's every reason to suggest we would beat the top team. I'd back us to beat the current West Brom team if we played them this weekend. And unbelievably they're a lot better than our shower were the season we got relegated. This fantasy you've built up regarding the ability of our ex-players is really quite strange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 13 hours ago, TheAuthority said: I don't believe that the center back pairing on Team A coupled with Guzan in goal is good enough to survive in the PL. Certainly not as strong defensively as Team B. Not quite sure what the point of comparison is though. Is it to pick a random group of players from a certain period in our history (hypothetically managed by someone with nothing to do with us) and compare them to the current team? Seems like a very tenuous way to make a point (and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.) Guzan was fine for us in goal until he started losing confidence, then Sherwood replaced him with Given which completely destroyed him. Clark & Okore proved to be more than solid enough when they were partnered together. On the other hand, Terry is on his last legs and Chester is average at best at Premier League level. The point is, everyone keeps saying how poor these players are yet under the right manager they were more than capable of at least Premier League survival. Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis were both managers I wanted us to appoint when we went for Tim Sherwood & Remi Garde and both were realistic targets. The second team is our current team and basically the players we replaced them with. While they're doing decently at the moment, the common perception is that the squad is better off which I don't go along with at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2018 15 hours ago, Michael118 said: One thing I can say with near certainty is over a full season in the Premier League, Team A survives (as a minimum) and wipes the floor with Team B which more than likely gets relegated. (a) Guzan Hutton Okore Clark Amavi/Cissokho Bacuna Gueye Westwood Traore Gil Kozak Manager: Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis (b) Johnstone Elmo Chester Terry Taylor Bjarnason Hourihane Snodgrass Grealish Adomah Hogan Manager: Steve Bruce First of all - you don't even seem to know what formation we play. Second of all, team B wins. Every single time. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 16, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Michael118 said: Guzan was fine for us in goal until he started losing confidence, then Sherwood replaced him with Given which completely destroyed him. Clark & Okore proved to be more than solid enough when they were partnered together. On the other hand, Terry is on his last legs and Chester is average at best at Premier League level. The point is, everyone keeps saying how poor these players are yet under the right manager they were more than capable of at least Premier League survival. Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis were both managers I wanted us to appoint when we went for Tim Sherwood & Remi Garde and both were realistic targets. The second team is our current team and basically the players we replaced them with. While they're doing decently at the moment, the common perception is that the squad is better off which I don't go along with at all. John Terry and James Chester could be blindfolded and they'd be a better pairing than Okore and Clark. Suggesting Chester is "Average" in the prem, and then saying Okore and Clark are better is hilarious. Both of them have been shown to be not good enough at all at prem level. You are talking absolute nonsense. Edited February 16, 2018 by Stevo985 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I'll never forget the face on Okore at the end of that Luton game as we got utterly outclassed. It was a face which said I've had it with this game and never wish to play again (polite paraphrasing). @Michael118 you display an admirable commitment to trolling and I applaud you. And thanks for reminding me of that face! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Quote Guzan, under little pressure, tried an ambitious clipped pass to right-back Jores Okore, but it went horribly wrong. He sliced the pass into his other foot and, rather than land at the feet of his team-mate, it bounced into the path of Sergio Aguero, leaving the striker with an open goal. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32362999 Not a fan of Sherwood at all, but there was a reason he dropped Guzan and it wasn’t that (being dropped) which ruined him: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Jores Okore is struggling for game time in a mid-table Danish team the last I checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Aston Villa with Clark and Okore at CB (2013-16) 6W (31%), 4D (21%), 9L (47%) Average points per season: 44 Aston Villa without Clark and Okore at CB (2013-16) 17W (17%), 20D (21%), 58L (61%) Average points per season: 26 Edited February 16, 2018 by Michael118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 45 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Aston Villa with Clark and Okore at CB (2013-16) 6W (31%), 4D (21%), 9L (47%) Average points per season: 44 Aston Villa without Clark and Okore at CB (2013-16) 17W (17%), 20D (21%), 58L (61%) Average points per season: 26 Can you post the games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: First of all - you don't even seem to know what formation we play. Second of all, team B wins. Every single time. Is that team B not exactly the formation we've been playing on this run (Just with Hutton in at left back rather than Taylor)? Its exactly how I'd show it and I've been to the majority of the games. Other than that yeah I agree - team B wins that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 That's not a stat that says they're better than Terry and Chester though is it? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 What nonsensical out of date bollocks is Michael talking about now? Time for my ignore list to grow a bit me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, VillaAlex said: Can you post the games as well. I've slightly miscalculated... Their record is 5W (29%) 4D (23%) 8L (47%), which on average is 42 points per season. Without them, our record is 18W (18%) 20D (21%) 59L (60%), which on average is 29 points per season. If you include FA Cup games, their record goes up to 8W (38%) 5D (23%) 8L (38%). Below are the games which they were paired up together in... Premier League (2014/15) Aston Villa 1 - 1 Southampton Burnley 1 - 1 Aston Villa Crystal Palace 0 - 1 Aston Villa Aston Villa 2 - 1 Leicester West Brom 1 - 0 Aston Villa (Richardson sent off after 22 mins) Aston Villa 1 - 1 Manchester United Aston Villa 0 - 0 Crystal Palace Leicester 1 - 0 Aston Villa Aston Villa 2 - 1 Bournemouth Arsenal 5 - 0 Aston Villa Aston Villa 1 - 2 Chelsea Hull 2 - 0 Aston Villa Newcastle 1 - 0 Aston Villa Aston Villa 2 - 1 West Brom Sunderland 0 - 4 Aston Villa Aston Villa 0 - 1 Swansea Manchester United 3 - 1 Aston Villa FA Cup (2014/15) Aston Villa 1 - 0 Blackpool Aston Villa 2 - 1 Bournemouth Aston Villa 2 - 0 West Brom FA Cup (2015/16) Wycombe 1 - 1 Aston Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 @Michael118 what you're missing here is that 'ability' doesn't stand still. If all you were saying is that at one point, Jores Okore looked like a promising CB, then not too many people would disagree. But by the end he looked terrible. He wasn't the first CB to go badly off the boil and he wont be the last, as Lamine Kone is proving very clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Team A is utter trash and would probably finish midtable in the Championship. Few leaders and too many wimps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: @Michael118 what you're missing here is that 'ability' doesn't stand still. If all you were saying is that at one point, Jores Okore looked like a promising CB, then not too many people would disagree. But by the end he looked terrible. He wasn't the first CB to go badly off the boil and he wont be the last, as Lamine Kone is proving very clearly. I disagree that he looked terrible. The whole team went 'off the boil'... If he regressed at all from the previous season, I don't think it was anything he couldn't have bounced back from. Our record with him playing that season is actually fairly decent - 2 wins, 5 draws & 5 losses. Over a whole season that's 35 points, more than twice what we ended up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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