Davkaus Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: They should be able to dish out cards for the ridiculous simulation of injury that goes on as well. Maddison is an absolute disgrace in that incident. I am sympathetic to the view, but I think our current inconsistent applications of the rules would look like nothing compared to the ref trying to decide if a player felt enough contact to justify their reaction While I understand fans moaning about the refs, clips like the above are why I think pretty much every player and manager in the league should keep their **** mouths shut. They spend all game looking for any opportunity to con the ref then scream and cry to the interviewers when the ref falls for it from the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 14 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I am sympathetic to the view, but I think our current inconsistent applications of the rules would look like nothing compared to the ref trying to decide if a player felt enough contact to justify their reaction While I understand fans moaning about the refs, clips like the above are why I think pretty much every player and manager in the league should keep their **** mouths shut. They spend all game looking for any opportunity to con the ref then scream and cry to the interviewers when the ref falls for it from the other team. Yeah that's why I think it needs to be retrospective and by a panel, it can be watched 100 times and still an opinion but at least that panel will have that time and the forum to discuss it and you can bring in old heads with experience but not the fitness to be a pitch ref anymore and it's away from the pressure of the stadium and the players Asking a pitch ref or VAR to do it in game imo is a big ask Also, me talking last week about VAR doing penalty reviews and being able to say yes or no but not being able to give a goal kick / corner decision following the review - has anyone ever been booked after a VAR review? Like a penalty review that's come back as that's a dive resulted in a yellow card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: Michael Owen should push him a bit more too on the questioning. " If there was no studs whiy did they deem it a red?. "How can 3-4 people come to the same, wrong conclusion?" That would mean Michael Owen having individual thoughts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 (edited) Going back to last weekend's games, Howard Webb said that the pull by Van Dyke didn't impact Guehi's ability to get the ball so there was no need to overturn... Does that mean you can foul anyone in the box as long as it's far enough away from the ball? Surely any deliberate foul in the penalty area, whether the attacking player can get to the ball or not, should be a penalty? Especially when goals get ruled out for defenders who are nowhere near the ball getting blocked off (see us vs Man Utd a couple of years back). Also doesn't it just open up another grey area where different refs/VARs are going to have varying opinions of whether or not a player could reach a ball had they not been fouled? Just another nonsense loophole that can be adhered to (or not) depending on who's being refereed and who the decision might benefit/negatively impact. Edited October 11 by oishiiniku_uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 38 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said: Going back to last weekend's games, Howard Webb said that the pull by Van Dyke didn't impact Guehi's ability to get the ball so there was no need to overturn... Does that mean you can foul anyone in the box as long as it's far enough away from the ball? Surely any deliberate foul in the penalty area, whether the attacking player can get to the ball or not, should be a penalty? Especially when goals get ruled out for defenders who are nowhere near the ball getting blocked off (see us vs Man Utd a couple of years back). Also doesn't it just open up another grey area where different refs/VARs are going to have varying opinions of whether or not a player could reach a ball had they not been fouled? Just another nonsense loophole that can be adhered to (or not) depending on who's being refereed and who the decision might benefit/negatively impact. On the first bit, no, it doesn’t mean you can just foul in the box. What he’s saying is that the non-decision (assumed?) shouldn’t be overturned because Guehi can’t get the ball. Of course, this is bollocks because Newcastle quite rightly got a penalty after Tarkowski hauled down Tonali(?) off the ball, with the ball not being near him and with the decision originally not given. Webb and/or whichever referees speak on the telly don’t have any integrity. Their sole purpose is to protect referees - which is fine, but you can’t take their word as anything. It’s nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 25 minutes ago, bobzy said: On the first bit, no, it doesn’t mean you can just foul in the box. What he’s saying is that the non-decision (assumed?) shouldn’t be overturned because Guehi can’t get the ball. So...If the penalty had been given by the referee then VAR wouldn't overturn it, but because VAR has the advantage of hindsight they can just dismiss the foul because it didn't stop a goal-scoring opportunity? That seems ridiculous to me, and as you say, it was contradicted by Newcastle getting a penalty for something similar (albeit a much more dramatic foul). 'We're not going to get involved because the player wasn't going to get the ball (and also we don't want the negative publicity of being the ones who made Liverpool drop points)' - says it all, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 29 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said: So...If the penalty had been given by the referee then VAR wouldn't overturn it, but because VAR has the advantage of hindsight they can just dismiss the foul because it didn't stop a goal-scoring opportunity? That seems ridiculous to me, and as you say, it was contradicted by Newcastle getting a penalty for something similar (albeit a much more dramatic foul). 'We're not going to get involved because the player wasn't going to get the ball (and also we don't want the negative publicity of being the ones who made Liverpool drop points)' - says it all, really... I don’t think it’s a Liverpool thing. People just want to run with that kind of narrative because “big club bias”… …which obviously doesn’t exist because the Fernandes “red card” happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Do the PGMOL and Howard Webb think us fans are stupid. Reports from them today, say VAR errors are down 80%. Of course they are you numpties. It's' because they hardly use it now. The errors have gone back onto the referees making mistakes and not calling for VAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 5 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Do the PGMOL and Howard Webb think us fans are stupid. Reports from them today, say VAR errors are down 80%. Of course they are you numpties. It's' because they hardly use it now. The errors have gone back onto the referees making mistakes and not calling for VAR. This was exactly my thinking too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 How is this that different from Gordon against Arsenal last year? Yet, our goal gets overturned. The image they give is too low resolution to be enough to overturn the on-field decision. Consistency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The_Steve said: How is this that different from Gordon against Arsenal last year? Yet, our goal gets overturned. The image they give is too low resolution to be enough to overturn the on-field decision. Consistency? I don't know if this is the actual VAR image, but I don't know if the camera is in line with the end-line. If it is then then the ball is out. if not I can't tell. My gut says out. Edited October 26 by fruitvilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 I don't know if the ball was actually out or not for our goal, but I'm tired of not being able to celebrate half the goals we score properly because of this retroactive refereeing. If the decisions aren't going to be made nearly instantly like they are with goal line technology, I'd rather they not be made at all, even if it does occasionally mean some errors will be made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 If you're not 100% sure then you have to go with the pitch decision No **** way can they be 100% sure on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 As I said in the match thread, Ollie has a terrible poker face and he clearly thought it was out of play imo. I'm sure it's something that technology should/will eventually be able to fix in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: If you're not 100% sure then you have to go with the pitch decision No **** way can they be 100% sure on that I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's touching the line slightly and a Hawkeye system would back that up. Nonsense to claim it's "factual" though, when it clearly cant be factual based on one image like that, it's an educated guess. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 26 VT Supporter Share Posted October 26 Surely it can't be that hard to line some cameras up with the line rather than having them at an angle to it, would make things alot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 I'd be amazed if the technology doesn't exist that would let them put a strip in the ground under the white line and then a chip in the ball that told them every time the ball went out anywhere on the pitch There would be a margin of error due the groundsman painting the line which they'd need to look at but it's got to be doable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 53 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's touching the line slightly and a Hawkeye system would back that up. Nonsense to claim it's "factual" though, when it clearly cant be factual based on one image like that, it's an educated guess. If it was factual there would be a PDF file or explanation to help fans and others make sense of the decision making. Once again, there’s not. We just have to take their word for it. It’s not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Another embarrassing day for VAR and I've only seen one game. Villa goal ruled out, how can they tell? The image we have all seen is inconclusive, the ball and line are blurred together. Lino didn't give it, not clear unless they have something they're not willing to show, goal should have stood. Cash's tackle, defo a pen, what is the ref thinking and how did it not get overturned? Bailey handball, the ball travels 50 yards, clearly a handball, how have they got that wrong? 3 big decisions in one game along with numerous offsides not given but corners etc would stand. What is the point in VAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fightoffyour Posted October 26 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 26 1 hour ago, AndyClarke said: Another embarrassing day for VAR and I've only seen one game. Villa goal ruled out, how can they tell? The image we have all seen is inconclusive, the ball and line are blurred together. Lino didn't give it, not clear unless they have something they're not willing to show, goal should have stood. Cash's tackle, defo a pen, what is the ref thinking and how did it not get overturned? Bailey handball, the ball travels 50 yards, clearly a handball, how have they got that wrong? 3 big decisions in one game along with numerous offsides not given but corners etc would stand. What is the point in VAR? You’re right about the ball out of play but neither of those were penalties in a million years. The cash one could’ve been a penalty if their player was as good at diving as kane and just waited for the contact but instead he went down early. The Bailey one, he missed a header and the ball just hit has arm as a result in a natural position form jumping. It has to be natural because all he did was jump and was unlucky/shit to miss the ball with his head. Also, whether it’s in the rules or not, to award an 80% chance of a goal for a ball harmlessly on its way out of the area would be ludicrous. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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