The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I sometimes think just sacking all of the refs and operating on a system of compromise and concensus between the teams on the pitch would be more fruitful.

I think a cointoss to see if a goal is allowed or disallowed would probably have a better ratio of correct results

[a m ole]

Just now, PieFacE said:

Didn't Wenger say it could be in place for the 2022 World Cup or something?

Maybe, but he also thinks changing the offside rule to the back of the player rather than the front would change everything for the better, when we all know it would just move the lines a foot or so

[OutByEaster?]

Moved this from the thread on today's game:

Okay, bear with me here, this is going to sound strange.

Thinking about modern offside and the role of VAR - if you look at the decision in the Albion game where there's a man who appears to be well onside - he looks a good four inches onside at least to me and they've got it wrong, even with VAR, and then you look at the decision in the Liverpool game against us where the goal is disallowed because the player has a thumbnail that's a microbe beyond the last defender - then you'll see that VAR have technically got the Liverpool one right and the Albion one wrong.

Of the two, I think the Liverpool one is the biggest problem - the idea that the drawing of lines and the decisions on when a ball leaves the foot of a player that plays that last pass is so incredibly accurate that they can say without a doubt that the player is offside is to me ridiculous - it's a nonsense - I'd like to have seen the Liverpool goal stand (in principle, obviously, from a practical standpoint I'd like to have seen it disallowed and us awarded the points on the spot) - but I think even though you can take your VAR lines and 'prove' that VAR is right, for me it's still objective and a really good example of the way in which VAR is ruining the game.

For the Albion one, although the player that scores the goal is onside, at least somebody is offside, at least there's some sort of reason why you wouldn't give the goal - now of course, under the modern rules the player isn't interfering, but I think that rule is bobbins too - unless a player is unconscious, on the floor or very clearly moving away from play, then for me they're interfering - I'd like to see the rule return to a situation where you're offside when you're offside, not just when you're offside and playing the ball. I have a feeling that's just me, but at least it'd be clear. This one is clear under the rules, don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that the goal shouldn't stand, it should, VAR have got it completely wrong because apparently you can't see anything with your eyes unless you've drawn a blue straight line across it. It's a goal - but I'd like the rules to be back where they once were and for it to be given as offside against Bartley.

So yeah, VAR got the Liverpool one right and the Albion one wrong but I think the rules were better a few years ago when the Liverpool one would have been wrong and the Albion one would be right - for me those rules are fairer and more sensible.

 

[tomav84]

On 11/04/2021 at 17:44, villa4europe said:

They should never have used the words "clear and obvious error" 

They've never applied it that way 

thing is, when that was what was sold to us i was all in favour of it

then it got put into practice and we realised that the clear and obvious thing was never implemented

[ThunderPower_14]

15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

Moved this from the thread on today's game:

Okay, bear with me here, this is going to sound strange.

Thinking about modern offside and the role of VAR - if you look at the decision in the Albion game where there's a man who appears to be well onside - he looks a good four inches onside at least to me and they've got it wrong, even with VAR, and then you look at the decision in the Liverpool game against us where the goal is disallowed because the player has a thumbnail that's a microbe beyond the last defender - then you'll see that VAR have technically got the Liverpool one right and the Albion one wrong.

Of the two, I think the Liverpool one is the biggest problem - the idea that the drawing of lines and the decisions on when a ball leaves the foot of a player that plays that last pass is so incredibly accurate that they can say without a doubt that the player is offside is to me ridiculous - it's a nonsense - I'd like to have seen the Liverpool goal stand (in principle, obviously, from a practical standpoint I'd like to have seen it disallowed and us awarded the points on the spot) - but I think even though you can take your VAR lines and 'prove' that VAR is right, for me it's still objective and a really good example of the way in which VAR is ruining the game.

For the Albion one, although the player that scores the goal is onside, at least somebody is offside, at least there's some sort of reason why you wouldn't give the goal - now of course, under the modern rules the player isn't interfering, but I think that rule is bobbins too - unless a player is unconscious, on the floor or very clearly moving away from play, then for me they're interfering - I'd like to see the rule return to a situation where you're offside when you're offside, not just when you're offside and playing the ball. I have a feeling that's just me, but at least it'd be clear. This one is clear under the rules, don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that the goal shouldn't stand, it should, VAR have got it completely wrong because apparently you can't see anything with your eyes unless you've drawn a blue straight line across it. It's a goal - but I'd like the rules to be back where they once were and for it to be given as offside against Bartley.

So yeah, VAR got the Liverpool one right and the Albion one wrong but I think the rules were better a few years ago when the Liverpool one would have been wrong and the Albion one would be right - for me those rules are fairer and more sensible.

 

 

Completely agree with this.

Nobody wants to see the Liverpool one called offside, and if it had been called offside in the pre-VAR era and the goal chalked off, all the discussion during the week would have been how badly the lino got it wrong. I absolutely hate this type of VAR offside and I completely agree that when it's that close, different people drawing the lines could get different results. I don't want goals scored against us chalked off in this manner because I don't want us to lose a goal in the same manner next week, and there seems to be one of these every week or two.

Offside was a less controversial rule pre-VAR. That should be enough to revisit how VAR treats it. The solution to me is simple: Lose the lines. If VAR thinks something is iffy, give the on-field referee a couple of run throughs of the replay at normal speed from the relevant angle, and if they can see a clearcut offside, chalk the goal off. Do this for all VAR decisions.

If you can't see the error in a couple of run throughs from a few different angles at full speed, it's not a clear and obvious error.

[Stevo985]

The West Brom decision is just another example of them wrongly using a rule or principle.

I completely agree that if you can't get a definitive answer from VAR you should stick with the decision on the pitch. I think everyone would agree with that.

The problem is you don't need the lines to show that decision is wrong. That's where it falls down. Just because the view is obstructed so that you can't draw lines doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to look at the footage and conclude that he's clearly onside.

 

It's a bit like the SHU goal that went over the line against us last season. Obviously if goalline tech fails and you can't get an answer then stick to the decision on the pitch. Except that it is completely obvious from the footage that the ball was over the line. So someone should be able to say "yeah ok GLT hasn't worked, but we can clearly see that's in so give the goal"

[sharkyvilla]

The Liverpool one would have been ridiculous either way.  The idea that the attacker was the tiniest fraction ahead so gaining an advantage but even worse would be penalising the defender for trying to stop the ball going through to him by 'resetting' the play if he touches the ball.  Getting rid of the interfering with play idea would be a bit extreme imo, plus I'm sure the officials would still **** things up anyway.  How Mike Riley is still in his job with this continual incompetence is outrageous.  Half the trouble is the mixed messaging from the top and obviously not having a feel for the game.

[villa4europe]

I'm surprised the PL haven't put forward a vote of no confidence and at least put forward the idea of bringing in foreign refs

[Villaphan04]

just have the MLS on and Miami have just scored. Questions about offside and they go to VAR. Rule is that they decide based on the picture whether Higuaín is offside or not... no bringing out the microscopic lines for offsides. to me that's absolutely brilliant 

[tinker]

On 12/04/2021 at 19:28, jacketspuds said:

Scrap it. I can't think of a single positive for keeping it.

Just get people in who can do the job. It's not hard just because a bunch of idiots have been picked to check VAR decisions  doesn't mean we should stop it, just retrain and if that doesn't  work then fire them and re hire. 

They should have training going over decisions  and looking at why they are wrong or why they shouldn't  have been made, not clear and obvious. 

 If a car crashes we don't stop using cars.

[El Zen]

12 hours ago, tinker said:

If a car crashes we don't stop using cars.

We would if they crashed every time you used one. 

[The_Steve]

On what metric is this handball? TAA fouls Wilson in the build up too

 

[Zatman]

7 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

On what metric is this handball? TAA fouls Wilson in the build up too

 

yes but if its like the Pickford challenge then the ref only looks at Wilson hand and nothing else

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

I don't like complaining about VAR too much, but that's ridiculous, a red card for kicking the ball essentially.

[weedman]

2 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

I don't like complaining about VAR too much, but that's ridiculous, a red card for kicking the ball essentially.

Yeah that's one of the worst decisions I've ever seen, stuff like this shows we need some match fixing investigations going on. There is no way that qualified referees genuinely think that's a sending off 

[rodders0223]

Sack the lot of these absolute plebs.

[AndyM3000]

The refs were crap for years, we added video assistance, it's still the same shit refs looking at the monitors so we get the same results.

As much as the offside thing is annoying it's got a set rule and degree of accuracy.

[Mantis]

Refereeing is actually worse with VAR because it adds another layer of incompetence/corruption.

[bannedfromHandV]

Edited - cos I’m an idiot.

Edited April 24, 2021 by bannedfromHandV

[tom_avfc]

5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Standards of officiating have officially gone to shit, as have pundit standards it seems.

Brighton have just had a goal ruled out for offside and yes, the Brighton player was standing offside but the ball went backwards - unless they’ve changed the rules again you can’t be offside unless the ball goes forward.

None of the commentary team have picked up on it, it’s like basic rules just don’t apply any longer (like Leicester’s goal against us which came from an obviously foul throw).

Direction that the ball goes in isn’t relevant and never has been. If you’re offside when a ball is played then you’re offside.

Haven’t actually seen this goal but I assume the goalscorer was ahead of the ball and ran back to get it.