The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[blunther]

One change I'd quite like to see to handball....

Accidental handball - indirect free kick

Deliberate handball - penalty

 

Reduces the 'penalty' for it accidentally bouncing off your arm, and who doesn't love an indirect free kick in the box?

[It's Your Round]

1 hour ago, blunther said:

One change I'd quite like to see to handball....

Accidental handball - indirect free kick

Deliberate handball - penalty

 

Reduces the 'penalty' for it accidentally bouncing off your arm, and who doesn't love an indirect free kick in the box?

That’s a great suggestion. Makes it all a bit more fair, and we don’t see anywhere near enough indirect free kicks in the box. 
 

The issue comes with determining intent, but then that was always the difficulty with the old hand ball rules. Still seems much better the current any contact is a penalty phase. 

[It's Your Round]

14 hours ago, villan-scott said:

A fantastic thread and explanation of the handball rule here. A definite must read. 

That’s a really good explanation. 

I didn’t realise David Ellary was still involved at such a level. He was one referee I couldn’t stand back in the 90’s. I remember once when they attached a microphone during a game (Arsenal I think?) he came across as a right word removed

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, blunther said:

One change I'd quite like to see to handball....

Accidental handball - indirect free kick

Deliberate handball - penalty

 

Reduces the 'penalty' for it accidentally bouncing off your arm, and who doesn't love an indirect free kick in the box?

That’s actually probably the best suggestion I’ve seen to date.

Remember when you used to get an indirect free kick for obstruction.

[blunther]

14 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

That’s actually probably the best suggestion I’ve seen to date.

Remember when you used to get an indirect free kick for obstruction.

The only indirect free kick in the box I remember seeing in the flesh was at Old Trafford, I think when we lost 3-2 to that late Macheda goal. If I remember right, Ronaldo scored from an indirect free kick. So I don't know why I like them so much, but they are entertaining!

 

Obviously would still need the ref to decide whether deliberate or not so it's still subjective, but at least gives them somewhere to go for stuff like the Newcastle one.

[PussEKatt]

The best rule change IMHO would be if they scrapped VAR and the new free kick rule and went back to the old way of refereeing.The refs did make mistakes but it evened itself out over a season.

The only new technology I like is the goal line camera.

[limpid]

12 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

The best rule change IMHO would be if they scrapped VAR and the new free kick rule and went back to the old way of refereeing.The refs did make mistakes but it evened itself out over a season.

Lots of studies showed that this wasn't true though. Refs would favour the "bigger" team in 50-50 decisions.

What was needed was better (trained) refs. Not additional crap ones.

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

The refs did make mistakes but it evened itself out over a season.

This isn't true

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don’t get why we have to have this new handball rule.  Why can’t it go back to how he used to be before VAR? I’m really confused as to why the addition of technology to help minimise errors has to lead to a change in the interpretation of handball? 

[Genie]

1 hour ago, limpid said:

Lots of studies showed that this wasn't true though. Refs would favour the "bigger" team in 50-50 decisions.

What was needed was better (trained) refs. Not additional crap ones.

Whilst I agree, I think even with VAR the bigger teams will get the benefit of the doubt even after looking at replays.

The ridiculous penalty for United against us as a good example.

Because even with VAR many things are still not clear cut the smaller teams will get less 50/50’s fall their way.

[Panto_Villan]

The new handball rule isn't connected to VAR, is it? Didn't UEFA just insist that we adopted the same handball rules as the rest of Europe already use?

[PieFacE]

I think VAR has been a LOT better this season. Obviously the handball rule is a sticky point but that's more of a rules issues. Struggling to think of any controversial decisions as a result of VAR. Having the ref view the monitor makes a difference imo.

[penguin]

I think everyone hoped, myself included, that the introduction of VAR would eliminate the "big-club bias" that was so evident in decisions. But it's done no such thing and there seems to be no consistency in the decisions made, particularly where it benefits one of the Sky 4.

[Villaphan04]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t get why we have to have this new handball rule.  Why can’t it go back to how he used to be before VAR? I’m really confused as to why the addition of technology to help minimise errors has to lead to a change in the interpretation of handball? 

 

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

The new handball rule isn't connected to VAR, is it? Didn't UEFA just insist that we adopted the same handball rules as the rest of Europe already use?

yup. I believe it was from FIFA/IFAB and the PL was one of the last major leagues to adopt the "new" handball rules. It was already in affect in most of the other 'major' leagues (Spain, France, Germany, Italy etc) iirc a few years ago. 

[Keyblade]

9 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

The best rule change IMHO would be if they scrapped VAR and the new free kick rule and went back to the old way of refereeing.The refs did make mistakes but it evened itself out over a season.

The only new technology I like is the goal line camera.

Is there empirical data on this?

[Zatman]

13 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

The new handball rule isn't connected to VAR, is it? Didn't UEFA just insist that we adopted the same handball rules as the rest of Europe already use?

Serie A has scrapped it for this season as was too many penalties last season. Think Immobile and Ronaldo got nearly 25 penalties between them

[villa4europe]

20 hours ago, limpid said:

Lots of studies showed that this wasn't true though. Refs would favour the "bigger" team in 50-50 decisions.

What was needed was better (trained) refs. Not additional crap ones.

100% agree, they need to increase the professionalism of the refs, make it a well paid full time sportsman like profession filled by well trained athletes

for me you do that 2 ways, you use St Georges as a ref centre, make them live local to it, attend there every day that they haven't got games, do training sessions every day, fitness in the morning, video analysis in the afternoon, maybe even some football thrown in somewhere, give them a support team, chefs, physios sports scientists, massages, give them the St Georges facilities, canteen and gym etc

then they need to review where refs are coming from, is being a ref a suitable alternative career path for the thousands of young footballers who don't make it every year? not a chance, who is scouting the refs? are there refs in the lower leagues and Sunday leagues that are brilliant but aren't climbing because again its not touted as a career path, can they make it that we have young guys on the pitch and then the older more experienced guys in the VAR room, they need reduce the average age of the refs

I'll use him as an example because I think he's a terrible ref, why is anyone surprised that a 49 year old 3 stone overweight school teacher john moss cant keep up with world class athletes? and why is the answer automatically get him some technology to help? 

[blunther]

26 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

100% agree, they need to increase the professionalism of the refs, make it a well paid full time sportsman like profession filled by well trained athletes

for me you do that 2 ways, you use St Georges as a ref centre, make them live local to it, attend there every day that they haven't got games, do training sessions every day, fitness in the morning, video analysis in the afternoon, maybe even some football thrown in somewhere, give them a support team, chefs, physios sports scientists, massages, give them the St Georges facilities, canteen and gym etc

then they need to review where refs are coming from, is being a ref a suitable alternative career path for the thousands of young footballers who don't make it every year? not a chance, who is scouting the refs? are there refs in the lower leagues and Sunday leagues that are brilliant but aren't climbing because again its not touted as a career path, can they make it that we have young guys on the pitch and then the older more experienced guys in the VAR room, they need reduce the average age of the refs

I'll use him as an example because I think he's a terrible ref, why is anyone surprised that a 49 year old 3 stone overweight school teacher john moss cant keep up with world class athletes? and why is the answer automatically get him some technology to help? 

Fantastic points and ideas. Never really thought about it that way before.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

100% agree, they need to increase the professionalism of the refs, make it a well paid full time sportsman like profession filled by well trained athletes

for me you do that 2 ways, you use St Georges as a ref centre, make them live local to it, attend there every day that they haven't got games, do training sessions every day, fitness in the morning, video analysis in the afternoon, maybe even some football thrown in somewhere, give them a support team, chefs, physios sports scientists, massages, give them the St Georges facilities, canteen and gym etc

then they need to review where refs are coming from, is being a ref a suitable alternative career path for the thousands of young footballers who don't make it every year? not a chance, who is scouting the refs? are there refs in the lower leagues and Sunday leagues that are brilliant but aren't climbing because again its not touted as a career path, can they make it that we have young guys on the pitch and then the older more experienced guys in the VAR room, they need reduce the average age of the refs

I'll use him as an example because I think he's a terrible ref, why is anyone surprised that a 49 year old 3 stone overweight school teacher john moss cant keep up with world class athletes? and why is the answer automatically get him some technology to help? 

They do quite a bit of what you suggest already. Paid between 70 and 200 grand a year (depending if UEFA ref or not etc.) and  £1500 per match. Regular days at St George's to do fitness, analysis, etc. etc. Refs, like defenders can't keep up with the quickest players, but they don't need to be able to sprint as fast as Traore, only to be capable of covering their (refs) diagonal runs over 120 minutes at a range of different paces and sprints. Of the group of "top" refs, there is bound to be some worse or better than others and the authorities need to support and help the poorer ones, and if that fails, replace them.

I'm not arguing against what you wrote, just giving some context (perhaps).

[PussEKatt]

18 hours ago, PieFacE said:

I think VAR has been a LOT better this season. Obviously the handball rule is a sticky point but that's more of a rules issues. Struggling to think of any controversial decisions as a result of VAR. Having the ref view the monitor makes a difference imo.

What about Manure s win after the final whistle Vs Palace ?!