The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Not sure how you can say that. Offsides are the biggest problem, its taking ages and they are still getting it wrong.

It being implemented horribly doesn't preclude it from being useful. Not sure why the reaction is always to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The 2 big checks in our game for example took seconds and they were the correct calls.

They should be following their own advice on clear and obvious. If they ever need to break out the calibers, they're doing it wrong and they should either defer to the original linesman's call or pick either the attacker or defender's side to err on.

[Keyblade]

Jack said today that he could have bet his house on Mings being offside for his goal and him and Maguire were already walking back. Watching on the TV I was also sure he was offside and didn't celebrate at all. People have been blaming VAR for Mings not celebrating, but he almost certainly thought he was offside and without VAR, the linesman would have likely raised his flag for offside and we would have been robbed of a perfectly legal goal. Actually, although I didn't celebrate Mings' goal, I had a glimmer of hope that VAR would check it and it might turn out that he was onside after all...and so it happened. I don't see how that sequence was anything but a net positive for the game.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Jack said today that he could have bet his house on Mings being offside for his goal and him and Maguire were already walking back. Watching on the TV I was also sure he was offside and didn't celebrate at all. People have been blaming VAR for Mings not celebrating, but he almost certainly thought he was offside and without VAR, the linesman would have likely raised his flag for offside and we would have been robbed of a perfectly legal goal. Actually, although I didn't celebrate Mings' goal, I had a glimmer of hope that VAR would check it and it might turn out that he was onside after all...and so it happened. I don't see how that sequence was anything but a net positive for the game.

Clutching at straws there man, maybe it was a competent linesman who saw he was not offside.

But no worries, you crack in denying that it’s had an adverse effect on the game.

Just a question to help me understand the context of the debate a little more but do you go to games often? (I don’t by the way, so not a better fan than you route) 

I think football is a totally different experience when watching on TV to being present.

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Clutching at straws there man, maybe it was a competent linesman who saw he was not offside.

But no worries, you crack in denying that it’s had an adverse effect on the game.

Just a question to help me understand the context of the debate a little more but do you go to games often? (I don’t by the way, so not a better fan than you route) 

I think football is a totally different experience when watching on TV to being present.

You misread me. I think overall it's had a net negative affect on the game. If you gave me the choice to get rid of it as it stands right now, I'd do it. But I don't object to the concept of it and its potential to positively influence the game. There are times where it gets things right and our game on Sunday was a good example. It might have been a competent linesman, but we'll never know as they're instructed to keep their flags down. But they're only human at the end of the day. 

That one call was the difference between getting a good point at Old Trafford and coming away with nothing, yet again. I love winning and scoring goals more than I love the initial jubilation of scoring a goal. I really don't subscribe to the celebration line of argumentation against VAR, and I'm someone who has quite a few bones to pick with it. You give me the choice between being able to celebrate goals instantly and without doubt, or getting a well-deserved result away at Old Trafford, I'd pick the latter every day of the week.

Also, no I don't go to games as I'm a foreign fan, but it seems to me that everyone on the pitch thought Mings was offside and this was confirmed by some of the players. Only the linesman knows whether he thought so as well. But given that we have the extra insurance of VAR on such calls now, would you really go back to leaving the responsibility of it solely on the shoulders of a linesman? The game moves very fast and while they are incredibly good at what they do, like I said they're only human at the end of the day. Just look at the video I posted above. That was a CL final, with only the best of the best and they messed it up on at least 3 occasions in a 10 min clip. Now whether or not the positives from this are worth it given how much else is wrong with VAR is another discussion but I think having the extra insurance of VAR for offsides can only be a positive thing for the game (even though they're somehow managing to mess that up too!).

[Davkaus]

17 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Was watching highlights of the 2004 CL final and it's astounding just from the short clip how many bad offside calls were made. On the biggest stage in club football. I bet the Monaco fans were fuming that day. Made me wonder how much of history would have changed if VAR were implemented earlier. Good idea for a football show to explore.

 

Same season that Porto were later investigated for and found guilty of bribing referees as part of Apito Dourado. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Davkaus

[Five Ken McNaughts]

Football fans have never had any problem with the common sense expression "in line with the last defender". VAR started down the short path to mockery and resentment as soon as it began pretending it had the technology to atomize these situations. When visual technicians pointed out the unavoidable margin of error in frame-by-frame footage, VAR officials continued to proudly declare an armpit was 1cm more advanced than a buttock. These are not "correct" decisions. They are guesses. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the hubris of these people. 

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Same season that Porto were later investigated for and found guilty of bribing referees as part of Apito Dourado. 

Wow, didn't know that. Makes sense though, some of those calls were horrendous.

[Davkaus]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Wow, didn't know that. Makes sense though, some of those calls were horrendous.

They were only found guilty of a single offence in the Portugese league, but you've got to wonder, haven't you. I can't believe they got caught and convicted the single time they did it.

[sne]

UEFA top brass Aleksander Cerefin on how he feels about VAR

Quote

Aleksander Ceferin explains UEFA's new offside proposal as he hits out at VAR

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: UEFA president Ceferin isn't a fan of VAR and has opened up on the issues that are leaving football fans, players and pundits frustrated

UEFA President Aleksander Ceferin, coming down on the side of the football fans, players and pundits against Video Assistant Referees.

As the controversies continue to pile up the animosity building towards the system is continuing to build.

Ceferin summed up the frustrations of supporters who would rather see the back of it.

“If you have a long nose, you are in an offside position these days,” he said. “Also the lines are drawn by the VARS. So it’s a bit subjective drawing of objective criteria.

“So our proposal will be - we will discuss this with our referees division - that it is a tolerance of 10-20 centimetres.

“Second thing, we had at UEFA the top coaches two weeks ago, in Nyon. There was Jurgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola, Max Allegri, Carlo Ancelotti, Zinedine Zidane.

“All the top coaches of European teams, and our referee officer, Roberto Rossetti shows a handball. He says: ‘Handball or not?’

“Half the room said yes. Half said no. So tell me how clear the rule is. We don’t know anything!

“For example, let me think about the Liverpool game against Manchester City . Was that handball or not?”

Referee Michael Oliver controversially denied Manchester City a penalty in their title clash against Liverpool last month when Bernardo Silva’s cross struck Liverpool right-back Trent Alexander-Arnold.

Jurgen Klopp’s side benefited and went on to win.

“Some referees in England, they don’t even check,” said Ceferin, “In Italy they check for half an hour. You know, it’s a mess.

“I was never a big fan fan of this. Now these days you see that linesmen don’t even bother to lift the flag anymore. They wait, wait, wait.

“The players? They don’t celebrate. Now they wait first for the VAR. And as I said, handball - no one can explain what is handball and what is not.

“What is intentional? The referee is not a psychiatrist to know if you did it on purpose or not!”

Leicester benefited last Sunday after VAR overruled a linesman’s flag and allowed Kelechi Iheanacho’s winner to stand against Everton , piling the pressure on boss David Moyes.

Ceferin went on: “Referees make mistakes. I’ve followed football since I was a kid. The first game I remember is 1978 when I watched the World Cup in Argentina. Kempes - 3-1 in the final against Holland.

“Referees mistakes are like players’ mistakes. We were discussing about referees mistakes for a week. It was interesting. Round tables this, that. Now it’s some kind of technology. Nobody knows who is deciding.

“It’s okay if you don’t rule someone offside if it’s one centimetre. Because the meaning of offside is that I have to have some kind of advantage.

“I’m not a big fan, but unfortunately, if we say we don’t use it anymore, we are killed.”

While VAR will be used at next summer’s European Championship it was not in operation during the qualifiers as Ceferin’s home nation, Slovenia, had their hopes ended by Poland.

“Look, we simply have to [have it at the Euros] because the teams will all complain when there’s a mistake against them.

“They will say: ‘We want VAR.’ For example, my national team Slovenia was put out. There’s a clear handball and I was at the stadium.”

“I was so mad! It was a clear handball! I was so mad!! But the referee didn’t see it. We would have qualified for the Euros.”

Ceferin joked: “People were looking at me like: ‘Who the hell are you if you don’t have any influence?’ Somebody started to shout: ‘Shame on UEFA!’

“It’s okay. I’m used to that. But it’s not so simple.

“At the end of the day, I said, every bad thing has something good - and the good thing is that now everybody knows I don’t interfere.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aleksander-ceferin-explains-uefas-new-21019816

Nice the see they also know it's a mess.

[Pelle]

Very interesting that. Good read.

Also interesting that David Moyes is under pressure because of Iheanacho's goal. That's a bit harsh.

[sne]

15 minutes ago, Pelle said:

Very interesting that. Good read.

Also interesting that David Moyes is under pressure because of Iheanacho's goal. That's a bit harsh.

I think that's only fair 

[Zatman]

A FIFA/UEFA leader who knows about football at least

[AVTuco]

Just die VAR.

[Davkaus]

Suddenly it's ok for VAR to give goals when the whistle was blew.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

Suddenly it's ok for VAR to give goals when the whistle was blew.

Wasn't blown from what I heard. Linesman put his flag up, erroneously. Looks like VAR got it right there. Shelvey really smart in playing to the whistle.

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Wasn't blown from what I heard. Linesman put his flag up, erroneously. Looks like VAR got it right there. Shelvey really smart in playing to the whistle.

YEah, you're right. I could have sworn he did, but I replayed it and the ref lifts the whistle right up but didn't blow.

Good refereeing, but another abysmal assistant.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Davkaus

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

YEah, you're right. I could have sworn he did, but I replayed it and the ref lifts the whistle right up but didn't blow.

Good refereeing, but another abysmal assistant.

If we were to go with some of the talking points around VAR lately, the fact that Shelvey didn't know if he could celebrate his goal or not is worse than the linesman getting the call wrong and potentially denying him a perfectly good goal.

[villan-scott]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Wasn't blown from what I heard. Linesman put his flag up, erroneously. Looks like VAR got it right there. Shelvey really smart in playing to the whistle.

Wilder will be fuming. Sheff Utd all just stopped and Henderson didn’t move. Bizarre scenes. Fair play to Shelvey though. 

[Keyblade]

Just now, villan-scott said:

Wilder will be fuming. Sheff Utd all just stopped and Henderson didn’t move. Bizarre scenes. Fair play to Shelvey though. 

That's on them tbf. Play to the whistle. They only have themselves to blame. They got outwitted by Jonjo Shelvey.

[Lichfield Dean]

Surely we have to go back to the linesmen not raising their flags, it can't carry on like this - there have been two or three screwups in the last week along these lines and it's a total shambles.