Guest av1 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I admit that I'm somewhat of a hypocrite when it comes to the death penalty, we all read about these truly horrible crimes and I'm normally the first the person to suggest that the perpetrators of these crimes should be beat to within an inch of lives before being hung drawn and quatered. But, I've been watching a series called 'life on death row', and while I've been watching this I've started to question my previously held views, especially as some of the subjects on the programme have had massively dysfunctional lives that have clearly impacted their mental state. Its led me to question if putting someone to death is any more morally acceptable than the crimes they have committed. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 Personally, I think it's morally reprehensible. When the news about Bulger killer John Venables being charged with possessing child abuse images broke this week, Twitter was alive with frothy-mouthed tough guys proposing ever more cruel and creative ways of lowering to his level. Some were suggesting his new name should be unveiled so justice can be served by the lynch mobs. Others felt castration was the way forward. Whatever the punishment, the general consensus was that it should be on TV. Venables is an extreme case - there's clearly no saving him. He's not wired up right. But kill him? It's a big step, that. Perhaps if he'd killed my child I'd feel differently but despite the associated costs of imprisonment, and my acknowledgement that he's not going to be rehabilitated, I just can't get my head around executing him. Somebody has to pull the trigger, or open the hatch, or administer the injection. That makes them a killer too. Whatever my views are, the way things are going it'll be back in this country as soon as the ink is dry on all those blue passports. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I could talk about this for hours. I’m vehemently against it, for a handful of reasons. I hate it when I hear people say “kill them, they’re no good for society”. Does that mean us good ones are being allowed to live because we give something to society? Killing people to show that killing people is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 People still kill in countries that have the death penalty so it doesn't seem to be too much of a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: .Whatever my views are, the way things are going it'll be back in this country as soon as the ink is dry on all those blue passports. Agree with all of your post NV apart from this. Thankfully i think there is absolutely no chance of the death penalty ever being reinstated in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I can often feel that some particularly horrible and violent criminal deserves to die a painful death. However, I think it would be terrible for any kind of justice to be based on my, or anyone’s, emotional reactions. States should be above executing its citizens, be better than the criminals they punish, not be driven by emotional desire for revenge. And that’s just the principle of it. There are loads of practical reasons to be against capital punishment, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Somebody has to pull the trigger, or open the hatch, or administer the injection. That makes them a killer too. Do you class the armed forces as killers? Or the armed police who killed the terrorists in London as killers? Not a knock, just a question. Its the same thing... state approved killing. Venables is an extreme case as you say and he'll never be right. Would I want to see him executed. I'm not sure. I can see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, av1 said: Agree with all of your post NV apart from this. Thankfully i think there is absolutely no chance of the death penalty ever being reinstated in the UK. It was tongue in cheek. I almost emoji'd it. I'd like to think even Jacob Rees-Mogg wouldn't support this nonsense coming back into law. But with politics creeping further to the right over the last few years, and without the "liberal elite" watching over us from Brussels, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, av1 said: Agree with all of your post NV apart from this. Thankfully i think there is absolutely no chance of the death penalty ever being reinstated in the UK. IIRC, from polls/surveys I’ve seen, the British public is largely behind it. I’d hope it never goes to a referendum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 Just now, Xela said: Do you class the armed forces as killers? Or the armed police who killed the terrorists in London as killers? Not a knock, just a question. Its the same thing... state approved killing. Venables is an extreme case as you say and he'll never be right. Would I want to see him executed. I'm not sure. I can see both sides. I think the two instances you've suggested there involve killing in the moment in order to prevent or curtail a terrible crime. It nullifies an immediate threat. The death penalty is a response to a crime having already being committed, and the criminal has already been neutralised. There is no longer an immediate threat. Venables is a really tough one. As much as I'm so anti death penalty, he makes it hard to argue against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 6, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6, 2018 I’m against it, but I admit occasionally I see a particular individual and I think I’d make an exception in their case. I suppose I remind myself of Bentley or Evans and think we’re probably better off without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I have never been in favour of the death penalty. It doesn't work as a deterrent and there have been several miscaragies of justice before it was abolished over here. Two have been made into films. Derek Bentley who has now been officialy pardoned and so too has Timothy Evans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: I'd like to think even Jacob Rees-Mogg wouldn't support this nonsense coming back into law. You sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, av1 said: You sure about that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said: I think the two instances you've suggested there involve killing in the moment in order to prevent or curtail a terrible crime. It nullifies an immediate threat. The death penalty is a response to a crime having already being committed, and the criminal has already been neutralised. There is no longer an immediate threat. Couldn't agree more, especially as an ex serviceman. If someone broke into your house and put your family at risk i think 99% of people would happily kill to protect their loced ones. Premeditated murder, or to stay on on topic the death penalty are a completely different set of circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2018 Got the potential to be a really interesting thread this, as it's tricky territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Generally I'm against it but there are certain times when I waver - Ian Huntley for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Xela said: Generally I'm against it but there are certain times when I waver - Ian Huntley for one. Thats the crux of the debate though isn't it? At the time there would have been an overwhelming belief that Ian Huntley deserved to die. But would you have been able to look the bloke in the eyes and then put a bullet in his head or administer a lethal injection? Its a tricky one but im not sure i could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Got the potential to be a really interesting thread this, as it's tricky territory. I’m sure we’ve done it a few times before, and if my memory serves me it was quite, let’s say, colourful. VT Off Topic has become as close to a liberal echo chamber (myself very much included) as you’re likely to come on an internet (non-partisan) message board, though, so I’d almost be surprised to see anyone argue strongly in favour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 6, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Michelsen said: I’m sure we’ve done it a few times before, and if my memory serves me it was quite, let’s say, colourful. VT Off Topic has become as close to a liberal echo chamber (myself very much included) as you’re likely to come on an internet (non-partisan) message board, though, so I’d almost be surprised to see anyone argue strongly in favour Kill 'em all - that'l learn 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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