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The Chop List - Winter 2017


AvfcRigo82
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So with the start of the window coming soon do we think any faces will be leaving us come January?

Surplus imo:-

Bunn- contract expires end of season anyway.

Richards, Elphick, De Laet, Lyden,- contracts end in summer 2019 and Tshisbola & McCormack end 2020.

If we can offload this bunch and recoup about £6m in fees and slice a big chunk off the wage bill too and allow us to bring in players that we will use.

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My squad list would be

GK - SJ JS Sarkic

Sell/give away Bunn = Fee/save wages

RB - Bree RDL

Sell/give away Hutton = Fee/save wages

LB - NT 

Loan in LB

CB - JC JT 

Buy/Loan in CB

Sell/give away/pay someone Richards out the door -> wages saved = fee to willing club (come on Sunderland, you know you want to)

Sell/give away Elphick Samba = Fee/save wages

DM Jedi

Buy/Loan in DM

Sell if possible Whelan = Fee/save wages

RW Snod Elmo

LW Adomah Green

CM Hourihane Lansbury Onomah

AM Grealish O‘Hare McC

** Note - Keep McC = Sell Bruce (if possible)

CF - Kodjia (when he returns) Davis Hogan

Buy/Loan in CF

Sell/Give away

** Note - Keep Hogan = Sell Bruce (if possible

Gollini and other loanee (outs) push a sale

I don‘t know how much cash we have left to play with. Maybe the Dr can „Create“ a sponsorship deal that allows us a shot at getting in a CF (top priority) a CB (2nd priority) and if we can go the whole hog, a DM „destroy & distribute“ and LB

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4 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So with the start of the window coming soon do we think any faces will be leaving us come January?

Surplus imo:-

Bunn- contract expires end of season anyway.

Richards, Elphick, De Laet, Lyden,- contracts end in summer 2019 and Tshisbola & McCormack end 2020.

If we can offload this bunch and recoup about £6m in fees and slice a big chunk off the wage bill too and allow us to bring in players that we will use.

Doubt we'll get much if any money for those players sadly. But it would save us a lot on wages.

Gabby also one who should go if possible, he wont thou. Even with a striker shortage he offers nothing and costs a lot. Contract up in the summer :hooray:

Still fear Bruce will offer Gabby and Hutton extensions.

Hoping we can get some more player in on loan and if so we might let Onomah or Snodgrass go should we be able to improve on them.

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4 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So with the start of the window coming soon do we think any faces will be leaving us come January?

I don't think anyone will leave in January and we might get 1 player in on loan. Next summer on the other hand will be a very different story.

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De Laet needs to leave to save his own career. 

Richards is stuck with us forever. 

Elphick needs to go for his career as well. 

Lyden won't get any minutes here, so he needs to drop down a division or two. I think he has talent, but needs minutes.

McCormack who knows. I doubt anyone will want him. 

Tshibola is the same thing. Couldn't cut it in league 1, so I doubt anyone will want him. 

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17 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So how much would it cost to release half of that croc of shite if we terminated their contracts if no one wanted them or even in loan?

Literally would just be paying out their contracts. Might as well keep them at the club just in case we get in an apocalyptic scenario where half our squad gets injured. 

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6 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

If we can't move any of them on in Jan/end of season then we really should just release them.

We probably shouldn’t - just due to accounting technicalities. If we release McCormack, for example, we write off his remaining value (basically the majority of his fee which is still technically an ‘asset’). 

So for FFP that would count towards a fairly sizeable accounting loss - probably the last thing we need. 

I kind of agree wth your sentiment, but sadly it would count against us 

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1 hour ago, mrjc said:

We probably shouldn’t - just due to accounting technicalities. If we release McCormack, for example, we write off his remaining value (basically the majority of his fee which is still technically an ‘asset’). 

So for FFP that would count towards a fairly sizeable accounting loss - probably the last thing we need. 

I kind of agree wth your sentiment, but sadly it would count against us 

It does seem that we have found ourselves in a place.....where everything counts against us.;)

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9 hours ago, mrjc said:

We probably shouldn’t - just due to accounting technicalities. If we release McCormack, for example, we write off his remaining value (basically the majority of his fee which is still technically an ‘asset’). 

So for FFP that would count towards a fairly sizeable accounting loss - probably the last thing we need. 

I kind of agree wth your sentiment, but sadly it would count against us 

True enough..

What fee are we writing off though?

Surely we would now need to pay someone to get this guy off our books?

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10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

True enough..

What fee are we writing off though?

Surely we would now need to pay someone to get this guy off our books?

You'd have to pay off his entire wages in one go.

So let's say he's here for another 3 years and we#ll be paying him £9m in wages over that period (no idea of the numbers, doesn't matter)

We currently spread that cost over the next 3 years. So this year only £3m would count towards our costs.

If we released him ,you'd have to pay off the £9m in one chunk, as I understand it

 

I've simplified that a bit, but I think that's how it works in principle. There really is very little advantage, if any, to the sentiment of just paying off players' contracts.

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6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You'd have to pay off his entire wages in one go.

So let's say he's here for another 3 years and we#ll be paying him £9m in wages over that period (no idea of the numbers, doesn't matter)

We currently spread that cost over the next 3 years. So this year only £3m would count towards our costs.

If we released him ,you'd have to pay off the £9m in one chunk, as I understand it

 

I've simplified that a bit, but I think that's how it works in principle. There really is very little advantage, if any, to the sentiment of just paying off players' contracts.

You’re right, there’s any wages we agree to pay him. 

But also, from a profit / loss point of view, his transfer fee gets spread over the life of his contract. So even if he cost us £12m in cash on day 1, in profit terms he ‘costs’ us £3m per year, if he’s on a four-year contract. 

That means after year 1 he has a value of £9m (initial £12m less one year’s £3m charge), then at the end of year 2 he has a value of £6m etc. 

So in January, approximately 1.5 years into a (say) four year deal, he is valued in our books at £7.5m, I think. If we cancel his contract, we show an acccounting loss of that amount, as we have ‘written it off’. That’s in addition to the wages we pay. 

Hogan was also used as an example in the FFP thread. It may seem unfair - but the flip side is McCorcmack didn’t ‘cost’ us £12m in profit terms when we first signed him, as the cost is spread. 

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3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You'd have to pay off his entire wages in one go.

So let's say he's here for another 3 years and we#ll be paying him £9m in wages over that period (no idea of the numbers, doesn't matter)

We currently spread that cost over the next 3 years. So this year only £3m would count towards our costs.

If we released him ,you'd have to pay off the £9m in one chunk, as I understand it

 

I've simplified that a bit, but I think that's how it works in principle. There really is very little advantage, if any, to the sentiment of just paying off players' contracts.

Agree Stevo and I get the notion spread over time can be slightly more damaging to our books.

We could enter another scenario where you could suggest it to the player and he could agree to say taking 60% of his wages in them remaining 3 years to bugger off now.(Yes, why should they do that when they can all copy Richards & Agbonlahor and just sit being wage thiefs).

Again okay it is difficult with first teamers to do that nowadays with the wages and contracts they are on, but surely it could be done somwwhere down the order on fringe players that have not go that long to go and are not on half as much?

The other part of the coin is when a team does come in for 'player x', after all is agreed he still might even hold the club to ransom and say he will only sign for 'the new club' providing we pay him '£x millions'.

So yes I agree and I get, but surely it wouldn't be that difficult for folk like Steer/Bunn, Lyden, Elphick who won't be on anymore than £50k a week and only 2yrs remaining?

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1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Agree Stevo and I get the notion spread over time can be slightly more damaging to our books.

We could enter another scenario where you could suggest it to the player and he could agree to say taking 60% of his wages in them remaining 3 years to bugger off now.(Yes, why should they do that when they can all copy Richards & Agbonlahor and just sit being wage thiefs).

Again okay it is difficult with first teamers to do that nowadays with the wages and contracts they are on, but surely it could be done somwwhere down the order on fringe players that have not go that long to go and are not on half as much?

The other part of the coin is when a team does come in for 'player x', after all is agreed he still might even hold the club to ransom and say he will only sign for 'the new club' providing we pay him '£x millions'.

So yes I agree and I get, but surely it wouldn't be that difficult for folk like Steer/Bunn, Lyden, Elphick who won't be on anymore than £50k a week and only 2yrs remaining?

But there's no advantage.

You're not freeing up wages in any way. You're doing the opposite. You're paying all the wages now meaning there's less money to spend.

What advantage is there to doing that? You have a smaller squad. yes these players are unlikely to be used, but it's still an advantage to have them at the club in case of an emergency.

Unless the player is a real disruption in the dressing room/training ground I just don't see what the club gains from paying all these players to leave.

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1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

But there's no advantage.

You're not freeing up wages in any way. You're doing the opposite. You're paying all the wages now meaning there's less money to spend.

What advantage is there to doing that? You have a smaller squad. yes these players are unlikely to be used, but it's still an advantage to have them at the club in case of an emergency.

Unless the player is a real disruption in the dressing room/training ground I just don't see what the club gains from paying all these players to leave.

Granted.

What happens with this squad if we where to be promoted, with FFP and a squad of players that are of no use to us of that level/Can't cut it, but still on long hefty contracts? How do we get round this issue if no other clubs will take them or they refuse to go out on loan?

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The list being the majority of our squad that will be left after contract expirys and loans ending will look something like:

                        Steer, Gollini

De Laet, Bree, Elmohammady, Chester, ElphickGreen, Taylor.

Adomah, Thishbola, Lansbury, Jedinak, Whelen, Lyden, Grealish, Hourihane, Gardner, Bjarnasson, 

Hogan, McCormack, Davis

 

That is the squad we would be left with come June 2018 if we where promoted. Scary!

The bold for me highlights the players that will not cut it in the premier league now and would need to be moved on.

The underlined represents our own who we would look to loan out to a team in this league and not yet ready for PL yet.

The remainder I feel would do well amongst a new team which is what would be required, however. It could be a task offloading some of the others.

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19 hours ago, sne said:

Still fear Bruce will offer Gabby and Hutton extensions.

If I was Tony Xia I would put a hold on any contract talks with anyone until the end of the season to see where we are at then.

It would be insanity alone to give Agbonlahor an extension cable let alone anything else!

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30 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Granted.

What happens with this squad if we where to be promoted, with FFP and a squad of players that are of no use to us of that level/Can't cut it, but still on long hefty contracts? How do we get round this issue if no other clubs will take them or they refuse to go out on loan?

I have no idea. That's really a totally different issue. It makes no difference if we pay off their contracts in full. We've still spent the money and it still counts towards FFP.

In fact we've spent the money early meaning we've spent more towards FFP than we would have done if we did nothing.

Plus we've written off any chance we had of getting some sort of transfer fee for the players.

 

There's a reason this almost never happens.

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