Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[LoughboroughLion]

Happy with the point.

I thought we struggled first half because Onomah didn’t prove to be the creative link that we require at AM.

Whelan is clearly not that player and Hourihane is a box to box energy player, meaning that the 3rd midfielder needs to link those player to Davis, Snoddy and Adomah.

Unsurprising that this improved when Grealish and Lansbury came on.

Was a little disappointed with Snodgrass today. I think he’s a great player but he needs to start taking a game by the scruff of the neck and standing out as the best player on the pitch at this level.

Adomah has regularly done that in the past few games and it would be great to have two players on the pitch playing that well on either wing.

[striker]

Seen that first half performance many times this season. No threat going forward and sitting back handing the initiative to the opposition.

Second half better but really didn't work their suspect keeper nearly enough and again had to rely on a bit of individual brilliance to come away with a point which I would have settled for before the game started.

However not impressed with Leeds at all and felt if Bruce had made the substitutions at half time I think Villa could have nabbed the win.

If Villa are to achieve that automatic second spot Bruce needs to be a little more adventurous at the right times and drop Onomah for either Grealish, Lansbury or O'Hare.

[tinker]

Gave leeds to much respect in the first half, second half we were the better team and deserved to win in the end. Davies was isolated, he needs another striker up there with him

[The Fun Factory]

1 defeat in last 7  away games versus the best side in the league by a mile. 1 goal behind in last 2 away games and have clawed back 4 points from this position. Bringing on players from the bench to make a difference. Still picking up points even with a massive injury list. 

None of these would have happened last season. Its slow progress but surely this is in a upward trajectory.

Edited December 2, 2017 by The Fun Factory

[Grasshopper]

12 hours ago, Cjay said:

I try to be fair when i go on other clubs forums.  

Respect

12 hours ago, Cjay said:

But a lucky spin which ended with Lansburys goal aside, for all you played better in the 2nd half i didnt feel you offered a threat. 

Fortune favours the brave/you make your own luck.......etc.

But still not a lucky spin.

Taylor went fully committed into 2 challenges (1 against your Beast of a defender) when the ball remained in your half (normally such a defensive challenge like that would end up as a clearance) there was a 2 v 1 situation where JG took the ball down and directly forward. Lansbury took it on and got a good shot off -> goal.

No luck about that 2 50/50 challenges 1 2v1 & a shot that beat the GK. Endevour and skill resulting in a worthy goal

12 hours ago, Cjay said:

Can count 2 good chances for us plus our goal, Coopers header from a free kick, and the Saiz cross that somehow evaded 3 players. 

1 good chance that despite outnumbering us 3/2 the cross was „so good“ it evaded everyone or were the attackers not quick/alert/far enough forward?

Had Cooper been onside he would have been no-where near getting a head to the cross

12 hours ago, Cjay said:

Not disappointed with a point, but overall we should have won and thats frustrating.

I would have taken a point before the game. However, seeing how the game panned out, we should have won, but we have a manager who stiffles us for too long a periods of games.

[Grasshopper]

I feel more like 2pts dropped than 1 pt won.

IF Top2 is our aim, we should go out to win EVERY game. Again, we seem to have to accept an away draw as a good result. My concern is that this may get us to playoffs where we have every chance of losing as well as winning.

So first off, the positives.

Defending en masse - works

Chester, although looking uncomfortable at times, great. MOTM Taylor. That tackle in the first 5mins put paid to their RWer thinking he can dominate that side. NT kept their main threat quiet all but once which almost lead to a goal (that cross - 3v2 = bad defending. I think JC on his left side and Samba‘s lack of pace was exposed here. Luckily no goal came of it). Taylors commitment to those 2 tackles that lead to the goal were priceless.

Tired players giving it all - Bruce gets a whole lot of credit for this

Coming back away from home - a great trait to have

Subs - excellent choice

1pt away from home - better than none

And now the negatives.

We could have and should have won

Team selection - to me it smacks of asking for trouble. We as fans know strengths and weaknesses surely Bruce with a closer view than us can see at least the same if not more?

Yes we have injuries and to an extent we are coping well, But! it could be and should be sooooo much better.

SJ is clearly showing signs of nervousness and insecurity without JT or is it because he has less faith/trust in Samba? That flapping/chicken out incident was a hark back to last season (13mins50) If replacing him with JS for a few games kills his confidence then he‘s not the right GK for a promotion challenge. To me it looks like he will cost us goals whilst Terry is out.

Hutton - I thought the ref showed good restraint for not being card-happy. He and a number of players were close to red.

In the build up to their goal Hutton was 40yrds up the pitch when the through ball came to their CF. Hourihane was the one covering as Samba came across (good tackle). The corner came in (I dont expect our defenders to win everything) but Samba was left behind by Janssens movement and SJ was indecisive (coming out then retreating) this gave him no chance of saving the header. Had he come and cleared everything out (a la Schmeichel) -> no goal. Had he have stayed and positioned himself he may have been able to make a reaction save. Distribution was again hit and miss.

I dont understand why JC gets moved across to the left. This leaves us strong on the left JC & NT but suspect on the right AH & CS. Their goal was a direct result of that weaker side. Surely AH JC CS NT is a better balance whilst we are threadbare?

So much for en masse defending.

MF -> build up/transition play - Terrible. Due to tiredness and a general cautious approach leaves us with too much space to make up to a tired line striker. Onomah, Adomah & Snod all look ineffective when they have those extra 10/20yrds to make up to get us into dangerous positions where we can get goal attempts.

Either change the tactic or freshen up the line up. Freshening up could also be earlier subs or the knackered ones coming off the bench for 30/45mins whilst the opposition tires.

Davis does great even though he looks well out on his feet. There is a great danger of Burn-out which really needs to be addressed. Either adjusting our play to give him less to do so he‘s not constantly running himself out. Or Subbing him if and when possible. (playing catch-up/needing him the whole 90mins doesnt allow us the luxury)

Leeds defenders seemed nervous on the ball (imho) I believe that a more adventurous approach with pressing from KD AA RS JO would have lead to mistakes and a goal which may have resulted in us taking a lead and using our effort to get a 2nd to seal 3pts rather than use it to rescue a point.

But there‘s my concerns in a nutshell. A manager hell bent on not losing rather than going for it. This league is shit, with enough shit players/teams in it for us to walk it with the squad we have. So instead of a team stamping its authority and being in a top 2 position, we are scraping it, winginging it and risking that it may not come off.

I hope I‘m wrong for promotions sake.

We simply must go up this season.

points are points. We are in with a chance whereas I believe we should be already top 2 making our intent clear.

VTID

 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, VERB27 said:

Happy with the point.

I thought we struggled first half because Onomah didn’t prove to be the creative link that we require at AM.

Whelan is clearly not that player and Hourihane is a box to box energy player, meaning that the 3rd midfielder needs to link those player to Davis, Snoddy and Adomah.

Unsurprising that this improved when Grealish and Lansbury came on.

Was a little disappointed with Snodgrass today. I think he’s a great player but he needs to start taking a game by the scruff of the neck and standing out as the best player on the pitch at this level.

Adomah has regularly done that in the past few games and it would be great to have two players on the pitch playing that well on either wing.

Interesting....i have said before, when them two are at it....we( the team) are at it.

[flashingqwerty]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

you bundle of joy you.....what do you do when you're not haunting houses.

Have you been on the Smithwicks

• call him what you like, but a coward......No
• He has got promoted from this league 4 times.......theres an exclusive for you.....never been mentioned.

TRO noone has ever said he hasnt achieved things in the past. But you'd be crazy to think that what he has done so far at villa is even remotely good enough to achieve automatic promotion.

I seriously doubt that you actually believe we were set up correctly for this match.  If you do you clearly didnt watch the game as we were awful.

Cawardice is the only logic reason i can think of for why he continually plays senior players who clearly are not fot ahead of adequate junior squad members.

Kodjia was clearly not ready to return, snodgrass played with damaged ribs and samba played with a groin problem.  All unnecessary risks with ample alternatives available.

He is afraid to blood young players and he is afraid to rotate.

Whelan and hourihane looked like they had already played 90 minutes when the match started.  Its not as though he couldnt have rotated them out when it was clear they werent up to it.

Its all pretty simple stuff and cowardice (because he isnt stupid or inexprienced) is the only logic i can apply.  Many of his comments on the media, particularly those aimed at the fans, also support the idea that he is scared of whats happening.  The alternative as i say is incompetence, and i dont think that can be the case.

[TRO]

We denied one of our competitors 2 home points.

that could turn out to be the most significant feature of last nights encounter.

[Grasshopper]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

We denied one of our competitors 2 home points.

that could turn out to be the most significant feature of last nights encounter.

May I remind you that we are also competing for 2nd? (or at least should be)

Us denying Leeds 2 home pts meant we lost 2pts to 2nd place

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

TRO noone has ever said he hasnt achieved things in the past. But you'd be crazy to think that what he has done so far at villa is even remotely good enough to achieve automatic promotion.

I seriously doubt that you actually believe we were set up correctly for this match.  If you do you clearly didnt watch the game as we were awful.

Cawardice is the only logic reason i can think of for why he continually plays senior players who clearly are not fot ahead of adequate junior squad members.

Kodjia was clearly not ready to return, snodgrass played with damaged ribs and samba played with a groin problem.  All unnecessary risks with ample alternatives available.

He is afraid to blood young players and he is afraid to rotate.

Whelan and hourihane looked like they had already played 90 minutes when the match started.  Its not as though he couldnt have rotated them out when it was clear they werent up to it.

Its all pretty simple stuff and cowardice (because he isnt stupid or inexprienced) is the only logic i can apply.  Many of his comments on the media, particularly those aimed at the fans, also support the idea that he is scared of whats happening.  The alternative as i say is incompetence, and i dont think that can be the case.

• I did watch the game.....I thought we was set up, the way i expected......that is not the same as players playing well below their own standards for whatever reason.Onomah was given too long granted, Hourihane was poor too.
• I thought the quality of our play was worse than awful particulary in the first half and we seem unable to get away from opposing players.there must be reasons i am not privvy to.
• I thought Whelan played well in the terms of his type of game....he was instrumental in our resilience.
• we have 2 players playing up the front who are 19 and 20 who are struggling .....I guess he feels he would prefer more experience....SB puts muvh emphasis on experience, some managers do, its his prerogative.
• I don't think he is scared of anything....just concerned in having key players with long term injuries.....every club has alternatives, but not always to key players without consequencies.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

May I remind you that we are also competing for 2nd? (or at least should be)

Us denying Leeds 2 home pts meant we lost 2pts to 2nd place

Second place at the moment.....Leeds could go on a run, Cardiff could hit hard times....Middlesborough and Derby could go on runs.....anything can happen.

there is plenty of twists and turns to this league before the daffodils appear.

yes...i want them to win every game......and i want them to play much, much better than that woeful offering in the first half.....I could list all the faults, but its boring, we can all see it.

[Grasshopper]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

Second place at the moment.....Leeds could go on a run, Cardiff could hit hard times....Middlesborough and Derby could go on runs.....anything can happen.

there is plenty of twists and turns to this league before the daffodils appear.

yes...i want them to win every game......and i want them to play much, much better than that woeful offering in the first half.....I could list all the faults, but its boring, we can all see it.

So you are offering „IFs“ for hopes & the acceptance of „Reasons of being shit“ for tollerance. When it is sooooo important that we get promoted this season?

Ok

 

[Cjay]

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Respect

Fortune favours the brave/you make your own luck.......etc.

But still not a lucky spin.

Taylor went fully committed into 2 challenges (1 against your Beast of a defender) when the ball remained in your half (normally such a defensive challenge like that would end up as a clearance) there was a 2 v 1 situation where JG took the ball down and directly forward. Lansbury took it on and got a good shot off -> goal.

No luck about that 2 50/50 challenges 1 2v1 & a shot that beat the GK. Endevour and skill resulting in a worthy goal

It was indeed 2 full blooded challenges,  but the 2nd one could have gone anywhere, the spin was fortunate, taking nothing away from the strike, but where the ball ended up originally was lucky.

1 good chance that despite outnumbering us 3/2 the cross was „so good“ it evaded everyone or were the attackers not quick/alert/far enough forward?

Had Cooper been onside he would have been no-where near getting a head to the cross

The offside was clear, but in the 1st half Cooper had a similar headed chance which he caught full on,  more of a flick similar to Pontus and thats a good chance. There was a lovely lay off from Ekuban that put Saiz through, had he took it left footed which he is capable of having scored a few left footed goals then thats a chance, you did well to cover but only down to him cutting back inside. The cross goal was unfortunate it ended up going through all there legs. Of the sides you had Adomah's chance down to Ayling missing the ball, and the goal. That was it.

I would have taken a point before the game. However, seeing how the game panned out, we should have won, but we have a manager who stiffles us for too long a periods of games.

Disagree on that, this is another game we failed to win down to us not taking our chances and because of Bruces tactics tbf. Had you had a manager who is more expansive then i feel you would have lost, Bruces tactics stifled Alioski and Saiz, thats to his credit. Had he not done that then given how we created the better opportunities when you were less brave, we would have created more if you were more brave. 

Accept a draw, but feel we should have won, you were as expected, solid, organised and hard to break down, but offensively limited.

 

 

[flashingqwerty]

On 12/2/2017 at 15:56, TRO said:

Second place at the moment.....Leeds could go on a run, Cardiff could hit hard times....Middlesborough and Derby could go on runs.....anything can happen.

there is plenty of twists and turns to this league before the daffodils appear.

yes...i want them to win every game......and i want them to play much, much better than that woeful offering in the first half.....I could list all the faults, but its boring, we can all see it.

So you admit we were awful but refuse to place ANY of the blame at the feet of the manager?

Sorry but it seems more like you who has been at the smethwicks as opposed to me.

Half the players that started the last match were clearly either carrying an injury or exhausted.  Last time i checked the manaher picks the team so in picking players that wetent fit to play he put us on the back foot from the start.

But then i suspect you already knew this and you are arguing for the sake of it.  I cant believe a guy who talks so much sense about many things truely believes those 11 players should have started.

[flashingqwerty]

Im also baffled as to where the Whelan love has come from.  Every media outlet ive looked at rated him as equal worst or near worst player on the pitch.  His retention tackle and passing percentages for that match versus his season average( and for me he has been having a poor season) were way down. Objective and subjectively he had a poor game and look very off the pace.

[Stevo985]

On 02/12/2017 at 00:01, flashingqwerty said:

 

Davis isnt ready to play all the time.  He could utilise a number of our first team as makeshift strikers or throw in a youngster for the last 20 minutes to see what might happen - but hes too much of a coward for this.

Bit harsh.

He's used Adomah and Elmohamady as makeshift strikers before.

And he has thrown youngsters on before. He used Davis up front in the first place for example!

[flashingqwerty]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Bit harsh.

He's used Adomah and Elmohamady as makeshift strikers before.

And he has thrown youngsters on before. He used Davis up front in the first place for example!

So you dont think Davies looked shattered from the start against leeds?  You dont think having someone how perhaps wasnt tired start who can play as a striker would have been a better option?

Bruce has used players who are not strikers as strikers only for short periods in games when he has had to withdraw our recognised striker and we didnt have a recognised striker on the bench.

Using Davies was forced upon Bruce because he had literally no senior strikers available and wouldnt risk playing someone out of position up front for a whole game.

Not having a youth striker on the bench considering our lack of options up front to give them a few minutes experience here and there wreaks of cowardice for me.

Whats the point in having a squad if you dont try and use them?

When the inevitable happens and Davies, or any number of other players who look tired, breaks down because of injury from being overplayed, would it not make more sense to turn to a youth team player who has had a few appearances here and there off the bench to bed them in rather than having to throw someone into a starting spot with the weight of responsibilty of being in the first team having never played at this level before????

We have injury problems and the guys playing weekin weekout look exhausted.  This will lead to more injuries if he doesnt start rotating.  Pretty basic management this, and he isnt a fool, so he is clearly aftaid to do it.

[Raver50032]

Much of this has already been said, but I'll post anyway to boost my post count...

Terrible first half from us - that Leeds goal was obviously coming. The manner in which it was conceded was disappointing. The only good thing about the first half was the giant Aero bar my mother had bought me. These 'terrible' halves are so frequent, I just can't fathom any more if it is the manager, or if our players are just not quite good enough or 'at it.' It happens far too often to be put down to 'one of those bad days in the office.' In some cases, we're unbeaten in a bundled number of games despite ourselves.

Second half was less terrible. And amazingly we scored an equaliser. Kind of felt to me like Leeds had turned their taps off. But 1-1 it was. Hurrah.

Lansbury - Equaliser He Wrote.

 

MOTM - Chester Drawers

Manager - Average

Ref - I put poor, because the standard down here is poo. He did well, I guess, not to send Hutton off. He was skating on the thin ice of life. A dalliance with the devil.

 

Jansson (forget how to spell his name and can't be arsed to Google) - face you want to smash with a cricket bat.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Raver50032

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

So you dont think Davies looked shattered from the start against leeds?  You dont think having someone how perhaps wasnt tired start who can play as a striker would have been a better option?

Bruce has used players who are not strikers as strikers only for short periods in games when he has had to withdraw our recognised striker and we didnt have a recognised striker on the bench.

Using Davies was forced upon Bruce because he had literally no senior strikers available and wouldnt risk playing someone out of position up front for a whole game.

Not having a youth striker on the bench considering our lack of options up front to give them a few minutes experience here and there wreaks of cowardice for me.

Whats the point in having a squad if you dont try and use them?

When the inevitable happens and Davies, or any number of other players who look tired, breaks down because of injury from being overplayed, would it not make more sense to turn to a youth team player who has had a few appearances here and there off the bench to bed them in rather than having to throw someone into a starting spot with the weight of responsibilty of being in the first team having never played at this level before????

We have injury problems and the guys playing weekin weekout look exhausted.  This will lead to more injuries if he doesnt start rotating.  Pretty basic management this, and he isnt a fool, so he is clearly aftaid to do it.

No I don't think he looked particularly tired. I think it was one of those games where he got outmuscled. It's happened before (Sunderland game comes to mind)

So no I don't think tiredness had much to do with it.

 

You're contradicting yourself here. You're  calling Bruce a coward for not having a youngster on the bench because of our injuries, but acknowledging he uses Davis even though that may have been "forced" upon him originally because of injuries. So which is it? Surely the two scenarios are the same.

Who are all these youth strikers who are so ready for the first team we should be playing them?