Popular Post villa4europe Posted March 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2021 Wait until the alternative is proposed until I celebrate... Don't trust them to get it right, the status quo will still be the main objective 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: FFP going to be scrapped?! Will be FFP for certain clubs who are in the "elite" select list they pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2021 Spending limits based on the coefficient? It looks like they've found a new way to block out new money and protect the current elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Spending limits based on the coefficient? It looks like they've found a new way to block out new money and protect the current elite. Where did you get that from? Really wouldn't be surprised, at least they're now being brazen about what a **** fix it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Spending limits based on the coefficient? It looks like they've found a new way to block out new money and protect the current elite. I appear to be in minority, but I think the original intention/idea behind of UEFA's FFP was to protect clubs from bankruptcy and stop unsustainable spending. Then I think what got added in was a desire by the continental "big clubs" to limit the advantage the (particularly) English clubs at the time had over them in terms of finances, so we ended up with something that does stop, or reduce the likelihood of clubs going out of business, but also which absolutely puts in a glass ceiling beneath the current Euro-telly League clubs. What's now happened that for many clubs (the telly ones) they've seen income plummet because of the coronafungus. So now they want to be able to spend more than permitted under the FFP formulas....so change the rules. Like you I suspect they're just trying to excuse themselves from things they want to hold other clubs back with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, blandy said: What's now happened that for many clubs (the telly ones) they've seen income plummet because of the coronafungus. So now they want to be able to spend more than permitted under the FFP formulas....so change the rules. I've got a slightly different slant on this one. I don't think the biggest clubs want to be able to spend more money - Utd, Real, Barca, Juve, Milan, they're all massively in debt, it's not profitable at the top anymore- their aim is to spend less money. We've had two decades where the solution was to keep increasing the TV money, but we've pretty much reached a ceiling on that, so they want to stop the arms race they've gotten into with each other and I think they're largely agreed as the G14 or G16 or whatever it is that it needs to happen, but to do that they also need to stop everyone else spending less - they need rules that make sure the little group remains who they are, whilst at the same time de-escalating the spend on wages and transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: it's not profitable at the top anymore- Your wider point you may well be right, I dunno. But I think this bit is both wrong (to a degree) and beside the point (or at least besides my point) - Rich Sheiks, Oligarchs, whoevers - they aren't fussed about making a profit for starters. They're into Sportswashing their regimes, or personal prestige, or protection from prosecution by Putin. When Man Utd can get sponsorship deals for what was it 230 million a year? for their shirts, there's still an opportunity for them to make a F-ton of profit if they so wished. The profits may be down because of fungus, but they'll return. Barca and Madrid are bonkers badly run. Man City, Bayern and many others aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rino8 Posted March 24, 2021 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2021 Almost anything they suggest will be bollocks and not followed by any club in the world. They may as well just let everybody go nuts at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 24, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, blandy said: I appear to be in minority, but I think the original intention/idea behind of UEFA's FFP was to protect clubs from bankruptcy and stop unsustainable spending. Then I think what got added in was a desire by the continental "big clubs" to limit the advantage the (particularly) English clubs at the time had over them in terms of finances, so we ended up with something that does stop, or reduce the likelihood of clubs going out of business, but also which absolutely puts in a glass ceiling beneath the current Euro-telly League clubs. What's now happened that for many clubs (the telly ones) they've seen income plummet because of the coronafungus. So now they want to be able to spend more than permitted under the FFP formulas....so change the rules. Like you I suspect they're just trying to excuse themselves from things they want to hold other clubs back with. I'm pretty sure there was some data that showed FFP had actually worked remarkably well in terms of stopping clubs going bust. I'm working on memory but Bury and Bolton were the first clubs to go into administration for 7 or 8 years (since FFP had been introduced). Previous to that it averaged at least 2 a season. So there is some purpose to it, even if the current iteration is massively flawed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm pretty sure there was some data that showed FFP had actually worked remarkably well in terms of stopping clubs going bust. I'm working on memory but Bury and Bolton were the first clubs to go into administration for 7 or 8 years (since FFP had been introduced). Previous to that it averaged at least 2 a season. So there is some purpose to it, even if the current iteration is massively flawed Yeah yeah. I think I posted that data onto VT. We need to be careful that domestic FFP and UEFA FFP don't get confused, because they're very different and impact completely different stratas of clubs. Domestic FFP is flawed, but working. UEFA FFP is deeply flawed and doesn't work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 24, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, blandy said: Yeah yeah. I think I posted that data onto VT. We need to be careful that domestic FFP and UEFA FFP don't get confused, because they're very different and impact completely different stratas of clubs. Domestic FFP is flawed, but working. UEFA FFP is deeply flawed and doesn't work. Yeah that's fair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 58 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I've got a slightly different slant on this one. I don't think the biggest clubs want to be able to spend more money - Utd, Real, Barca, Juve, Milan, they're all massively in debt, it's not profitable at the top anymore- their aim is to spend less money. We've had two decades where the solution was to keep increasing the TV money, but we've pretty much reached a ceiling on that, so they want to stop the arms race they've gotten into with each other and I think they're largely agreed as the G14 or G16 or whatever it is that it needs to happen, but to do that they also need to stop everyone else spending less - they need rules that make sure the little group remains who they are, whilst at the same time de-escalating the spend on wages and transfers. You could be right. In terms of TV rights I think in Europe this probably has reached its level or could even drop with the expected recession post covid. China tv deal was pulled which I think was replaced with less money. It might have reached saturation point, TV ratings are dropping and the young folk do not have the attention span to watch 90 minutes. Says old man shouting at things lol. Sports gaming might be in the future where there is more money and less expensive on the 'talent'. The european elite would be very happy to pull up the drawbridge and make lots of money, as the reformed champions league shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 "brave" protests by Norway wearing tshirts criticizing the Qatar regime. Why not make an actual stand and pull out of the tournament, yeah I thought so 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 55 minutes ago, Zatman said: "brave" protests by Norway wearing tshirts criticizing the Qatar regime. Why not make an actual stand and pull out of the tournament, yeah I thought so It's not brave and outspoken until they change their social media profile picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Zatman said: "brave" protests by Norway wearing tshirts criticizing the Qatar regime. Why not make an actual stand and pull out of the tournament, yeah I thought so I hate when people use the term "virtue signalling" 99.9% of the time, but what else can you call that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, blandy said: We need to be careful that domestic FFP and UEFA FFP don't get confused, because they're very different and impact completely different stratas of clubs. Domestic FFP is flawed, but working. UEFA FFP is deeply flawed and doesn't work. There's 3 FFP's, premier league one, UEFA one and EFL one. The only one that's needed is the EFL one to stop clubs disappearing. If a premier league club does a leeds or a sunderland then they will still survive, unless they really go tits up. They will deserve the relegation(s) that they get from gambling. Same for any club in the Europa league or CL. Edited March 25, 2021 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 25, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2021 17 hours ago, Keyblade said: I hate when people use the term "virtue signalling" 99.9% of the time, but what else can you call that? Maybe it's not the 11 (or 17 or however many it is in the current squad) who y'know get to decide whether the Norwegian FA pulls out of it? Like if England players wear anti-racism badges, but the English FA does sweet, er, FA, about racism? or is that a crap analogy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, blandy said: Maybe it's not the 11 (or 17 or however many it is in the current squad) who y'know get to decide whether the Norwegian FA pulls out of it? Like if England players wear anti-racism badges, but the English FA does sweet, er, FA, about racism? or is that a crap analogy? No it's a fair point. I just assumed it was the FA or the national team that organized it rather than individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 25, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: No it's a fair point. I just assumed it was the FA or the national team that organized it rather than individual players. They probably sanctioned it (i.e. didn't stop the players doing it). Maybe they're thinking of pulling out and this shirt thing will sort of test the water to see if others share the same view? There's lots of possibilities. "virtue signalling" is one of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, blandy said: They probably sanctioned it (i.e. didn't stop the players doing it). Maybe they're thinking of pulling out and this shirt thing will sort of test the water to see if others share the same view? There's lots of possibilities. "virtue signalling" is one of course. The Norwegian FA is a democratic grassroots membership organisation, and will be voting on the issue of boycotting at an extra ordinary GA later this year. Several clubs have already voted in favour (Norwegian clubs are mass membership clubs.) The FA board, however, are dead against (unsurprisingly) but don’t have final say. This has kind of left the players and coaching staff in an awkward position, politically, and I’m actually pleasantly surprised they’ve gone as far as they have here. The T-shirts was their initiative entirely. The FA were not involved. Edited March 25, 2021 by El Zen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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