Ratings & Reactions: Wolves v Villa

[flashingqwerty]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

But if one system was better than the other everyone would use it.....but there are umpteen.

Every system still relies on every player doing their job and being "at it"

4-4-2 is fine for us if everyone is applying themselves with gusto......half our team looked like they played yesterday.....but tragically i have seen similar before.

We had players who were struggling with basic elements of the game, like controlling the ball and losing their marker....i could go on.

I think its more about players than systems and i'm not discarding systems, but we had too many players, Flat.

ps our wingers should have exploited their back 3, but they just lost themselves.

Sorry TRO but i fear your footballing philosophy is as dated as SB's.

The wide players were unable to get as far up the pitch as their back 3 because when we had the ball it was kept in our own half and passed sideways. For the wide men to recieve the ball they had to drop deep into our own half because noone was prepared to make the forward pass out wide.  They've done it in previous matches and at previous clubs so the players are capable. For them to refuse to use the flanks consistently points to an instruction.

SB today mentioned before the match that 4-4-2 doesnt work well against wolves, but he played 4-4-2.  Then by halftime when even the blind man in the corner could see if wasnt working, he did nothing.  He then left it too late when eventually making a change, and imo he made the wrong changes to impact the game.

Complete fail from the manager today for me.  And i think that most schoolboys could have predicted this and set us up better than sb did.

God help us!

[MONCABA]

I think Nuno's previous knowledge of the Portuguese players has helped when spending their millions.  Bruce on the other hand, tried to buy player's who were classed as the stars at their previous teams and it hasn't worked. For what its worth, I still think we will be in the mix come May, but winning promotion through the playoffs,  I'm so sure.

[jimmygreaves]

The only tiny crumbs of comfort is that having spoken to a couple of wolves fans (who are in their mid to late 40's) they say that's the best wolves performance they've ever seen. So whilst we were rank they were exceptional.

[Harry]

Did not bother to watch the game as the result was just too easy to predict. Wolves are the side we should be given the money we have spent.

I’m not a fan of SB nor for that matter I have I been screaming for him to be sacked. I just expected him to be outsmarted in this game by a better manager and seemingly he was.

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, MONCABA said:

I think Nuno's previous knowledge of the Portuguese players has helped when spending their millions.  Bruce on the other hand, tried to buy player's who were classed as the stars at their previous teams and it hasn't worked. For what its worth, I still think we will be in the mix come May, but winning promotion through the playoffs,  I'm so sure.

Bruce has also bought players he knows or has signed before. He still has not been able to make it work.

[AntrimBlack]

The result was as expected. Better team, better manager.

But we did not trouble them at all. The players are fettered by Bruce's defensive mindset, no matter the formation.

All is not lost by this one game against an excellent team. We should still be able to get a play off position.

[Grasshopper]

Having slept on it, in the hope of calming down a bit and seeing the overall picture.

That performance was disturbing as it was embarrassing.

The ONLY thing I can come up with as a possible lesson learnt.

Wolves, the club, showed us the way to go, from the Directors box, the management/coaching team and the players. So look how their fans lapped it all up!

Now IF we could learn from that lesson I could swallow that defeat and indeed go again. But looking at our bigger picture I see a manager and coaching staff who are completely devoid of any kind of method or philosophy hanging out our players to dry.

If it takes a couple of last ditch tackles from Hutton to earn Motm (in some peoples eyes) playing out of position then there is something seriously wrong with the way we are set up and sent out to task the game.

* Hutton Motm <-> Forward marauds coming to nothing, stuck upfield exposing us every time, Throw-ins, needing Adomah to cover BEHIND him on numerous occasions, continually giving the ball away or playing Adomah into a „nowhere to go“ position.

Baffling that being absolute shyte and ineffective for 80% of your game that a couple of good tackles can paper over the earthquake.

Unbelievable Jeff!

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Having slept on it, in the hope of calming down a bit and seeing the overall picture.

That performance was disturbing as it was embarrassing.

The ONLY thing I can come up with as a possible lesson learnt.

Wolves, the club, showed us the way to go, from the Directors box, the management/coaching team and the players. So look how their fans lapped it all up!

Now IF we could learn from that lesson I could swallow that defeat and indeed go again. But looking at our bigger picture I see a manager and coaching staff who are completely devoid of any kind of method or philosophy hanging out our players to dry.

If it takes a couple of last ditch tackles from Hutton to earn Motm (in some peoples eyes) playing out of position then there is something seriously wrong with the way we are set up and sent out to task the game.

* Hutton Motm <-> Forward marauds coming to nothing, stuck upfield exposing us every time, Throw-ins, needing Adomah to cover BEHIND him on numerous occasions, continually giving the ball away or playing Adomah into a „nowhere to go“ position.

Baffling that being absolute shyte and ineffective for 80% of your game that a couple of good tackles can paper over the earthquake.

Unbelievable Jeff!

I just read about Jota Neves and Boratini. Wolves are doing exactly what we all prayed we would do under new owners. When they go up they will mean business. For us it almost feels like Randy Lerner in his early years all over again but this time in the Championship. So much promise yet doing it all the wrong way. 

Will we ever get it right?

[OutByEaster?]

I'm not panicking on this one.

The way we play, we allow the other team an awful lot of the ball - we then look to beat them through their own mistakes, set pieces or moments of individual brilliance - we're not looking to football teams off the park and we rely to a large extent on them not being able to football us off the park either. In that last statement, we're relying on the championship not being the home of good football.

For Wolves, that simply isn't true. Sometimes it's not about us, sometimes it's someone else day - I know a few Wolves fans and they're all of the opinion that they played really well yesterday - they're also the best footballing side in the division by a country mile. So, what we were up against was the best footballing side in the division playing well against a team that largely relies on you not being a good footballing side - a recipe for disaster.

In general, the league isn't as good as Wolves, and our plan should get us about where we deserve to be - either just in or just out of the playoffs - I'm hopeful we can be just in the playoff positions at the end of the season and I think the plan will work against a lot of teams. We're not easily out muscled, out worked, or rolled over - but if you can move the ball around, you'll beat us. Not many teams can do that.

Now, there's a humungous argument to be had about the way we play, our ambitions, our goals, entertainment, style, long term aims and so on - but for this year, I think we've lost that argument - we can't be Wolves - we've bought players who play the way we play, we've bought players with limitations that match our style - even our best players can't play that way - Kodjia can't play in a passing team, when you give him the ball for the most part he'll have a go at goal or lose it, you don't often get it back. To change ourselves into a team that sets out with the aim of dominating the ball, controlling games and footballing teams off the park, we'd need a new manager and three or four transfers windows- frankly, I don't think we can afford it at the moment both in terms of money or time. We have a system and a plan and this manager has made that system and plan work before - we're all in and we have to stick with the bet.

Fair play to Wolves, they look a very good side full of talented young players with a mass of potential and resale values - in comparison, we look a bit of a mess - but we're still a mess that can make the playoffs - Wolves are both exceptional and the exception - we won't play many teams like this again this season and we have to maintain some faith in our admittedly unattractive method. 

Not easy supporting the Villa is it?

 

 

[foreveryoung]

Totally agree with the above, an just remember how long it has took Wolves to get it right, fancy league 1 anyone?

The Championship, with money available now is changing, I said this a couple of weeks ago, Wolves being the example, being the richest club in the League helps more so. It used to be about graft, which is what Bruce is about and knows best. Unfortunately for us that's what we have built, (although weather Bruce can get this team fully grafting is another story) it's old fashioned and growing out of the Championship, that's why most teams now promoted do well in the Premiership.

There lies the problem with Bruce, he will never have the passing game and is why once we get to the premiership (if ever) we should change manager a.s.a.p, as we would be back down with Bruce, as the style he plays is dated and will probably just about work in the Championship to get us promoted......................maybe.

[romavillan]

20 hours ago, TRO said:

They played 3-4-3?.....so had 4 in the middle the same as us.

we had 2 wide midfielders who offered very little in terms of synergy, so I guess the 2 in the middle did have too much work.

at times like this they don't look like they are supporting each other, its disjointed.

I can't say where the problem is.....i can only speculate......but i can say there is one and it is rearing its ugly head in more than just this game.

Unfortunately the 3 up top didn't realise they were banned from joining in, quite often when they won the ball back you could say they had 6 in there if you count the wide players. Our 4 contained 2 wingers, theirs di not.

[romavillan]

4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not panicking on this one.

The way we play, we allow the other team an awful lot of the ball - we then look to beat them through their own mistakes, set pieces or moments of individual brilliance - we're not looking to football teams off the park and we rely to a large extent on them not being able to football us off the park either. In that last statement, we're relying on the championship not being the home of good football.

For Wolves, that simply isn't true. Sometimes it's not about us, sometimes it's someone else day - I know a few Wolves fans and they're all of the opinion that they played really well yesterday - they're also the best footballing side in the division by a country mile. So, what we were up against was the best footballing side in the division playing well against a team that largely relies on you not being a good footballing side - a recipe for disaster.

In general, the league isn't as good as Wolves, and our plan should get us about where we deserve to be - either just in or just out of the playoffs - I'm hopeful we can be just in the playoff positions at the end of the season and I think the plan will work against a lot of teams. We're not easily out muscled, out worked, or rolled over - but if you can move the ball around, you'll beat us. Not many teams can do that.

Now, there's a humungous argument to be had about the way we play, our ambitions, our goals, entertainment, style, long term aims and so on - but for this year, I think we've lost that argument - we can't be Wolves - we've bought players who play the way we play, we've bought players with limitations that match our style - even our best players can't play that way - Kodjia can't play in a passing team, when you give him the ball for the most part he'll have a go at goal or lose it, you don't often get it back. To change ourselves into a team that sets out with the aim of dominating the ball, controlling games and footballing teams off the park, we'd need a new manager and three or four transfers windows- frankly, I don't think we can afford it at the moment both in terms of money or time. We have a system and a plan and this manager has made that system and plan work before - we're all in and we have to stick with the bet.

Fair play to Wolves, they look a very good side full of talented young players with a mass of potential and resale values - in comparison, we look a bit of a mess - but we're still a mess that can make the playoffs - Wolves are both exceptional and the exception - we won't play many teams like this again this season and we have to maintain some faith in our admittedly unattractive method. 

Not easy supporting the Villa is it?

 

 

The first part of the highlight 100% true, the second half, well, maybe but the trend is definitely not in our favour in this regard. There are footballing sides promoted from league one. There are a growing number of well organised footballing sides in this division. If we don't go up this year it can't be a long term plan, this "style" of play. It's pretty close to self harm right now, but put a few other decent side in this division and we'll struggle to be anything more than mid table.

[romavillan]

8 hours ago, MONCABA said:

I think Nuno's previous knowledge of the Portuguese players has helped when spending their millions.  Bruce on the other hand, tried to buy player's who were classed as the stars at their previous teams and it hasn't worked. For what its worth, I still think we will be in the mix come May, but winning promotion through the playoffs,  I'm so sure.

It definitely helped that he knew what he wanted and knew how to get the best out of them to make a team.

We desperately needed it when we got RDM, we need it even more now.

[poitier]

42 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Unfortunately the 3 up top didn't realise they were banned from joining in, quite often when they won the ball back you could say they had 6 in there if you count the wide players. Our 4 contained 2 wingers, theirs di not.

We often had 7-8 players in our own box against 3 Wolves players at the most - they didn't get enough men into the box first half, but they rectified it in the second. Pulling our midfield into our own box so readily is always going to give us problems in terms of reaining and turning over possession, regardless of the formation employed by us or our opponents.

[romavillan]

2 hours ago, poitier said:

We often had 7-8 players in our own box against 3 Wolves players at the most - they didn't get enough men into the box first half, but they rectified it in the second. Pulling our midfield into our own box so readily is always going to give us problems in terms of reaining and turning over possession, regardless of the formation employed by us or our opponents.

Yeah i was replying about numbers in midfield but you are right, we were going five minutes at a time without the ball, then when we got a touch we had 8 players in our own box and smashed it over the heads of the othe two and waited for them to come back on to us.

We are horrendously out of our depth against any side that can pass and move. It's shit.

[flashingqwerty]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not panicking on this one.

The way we play, we allow the other team an awful lot of the ball - we then look to beat them through their own mistakes, set pieces or moments of individual brilliance - we're not looking to football teams off the park and we rely to a large extent on them not being able to football us off the park either. In that last statement, we're relying on the championship not being the home of good football.

For Wolves, that simply isn't true. Sometimes it's not about us, sometimes it's someone else day - I know a few Wolves fans and they're all of the opinion that they played really well yesterday - they're also the best footballing side in the division by a country mile. So, what we were up against was the best footballing side in the division playing well against a team that largely relies on you not being a good footballing side - a recipe for disaster.

In general, the league isn't as good as Wolves, and our plan should get us about where we deserve to be - either just in or just out of the playoffs - I'm hopeful we can be just in the playoff positions at the end of the season and I think the plan will work against a lot of teams. We're not easily out muscled, out worked, or rolled over - but if you can move the ball around, you'll beat us. Not many teams can do that.

Now, there's a humungous argument to be had about the way we play, our ambitions, our goals, entertainment, style, long term aims and so on - but for this year, I think we've lost that argument - we can't be Wolves - we've bought players who play the way we play, we've bought players with limitations that match our style - even our best players can't play that way - Kodjia can't play in a passing team, when you give him the ball for the most part he'll have a go at goal or lose it, you don't often get it back. To change ourselves into a team that sets out with the aim of dominating the ball, controlling games and footballing teams off the park, we'd need a new manager and three or four transfers windows- frankly, I don't think we can afford it at the moment both in terms of money or time. We have a system and a plan and this manager has made that system and plan work before - we're all in and we have to stick with the bet.

Fair play to Wolves, they look a very good side full of talented young players with a mass of potential and resale values - in comparison, we look a bit of a mess - but we're still a mess that can make the playoffs - Wolves are both exceptional and the exception - we won't play many teams like this again this season and we have to maintain some faith in our admittedly unattractive method. 

Not easy supporting the Villa is it?

 

 

Cant, wont and dont agree with most of this.  The vast majority of the players we have signed have played, and looked good and comfortable, in a good footballing side.

SB has not signed players that fir into his 'hit and hope' style, if he has a style, of football - as with so many of our previous managers we have square pegs in round holes over a large portion of the pitch.

The man bought some of the top talent this division had to offer and is forcing them to play a rigid uninventive slogger type of football which goes against their natural instinct and goes againsts their strengths.

We may get into the playoffs this season, though i doubt we will, but if we do we will net win promotion as we cant compete with the better teams in the league because the manager has half the players legs tied together.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, romavillan said:

Unfortunately the 3 up top didn't realise they were banned from joining in, quite often when they won the ball back you could say they had 6 in there if you count the wide players. Our 4 contained 2 wingers, theirs di not.

I am not sure i understand the point you are making.......the same numbers of players preside on each team.....They all have the opportunity to put themselves about.

some do some don't.....is where i see the problem.

They got about their business, we didn't.

If they have more players in one area, they are leaving other areas unattended and an opportunity to exploit.

Those who apply themselves best, usually win.

sadly, the very worry i had about our team was confirmed for me.....we just compete inconsistently.

if we play like we did against Wolves and Blues play like they did against Cardiff....we are in for another disappointment in a few games.

Edited October 15, 2017 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

12 hours ago, jimmygreaves said:

The only tiny crumbs of comfort is that having spoken to a couple of wolves fans (who are in their mid to late 40's) they say that's the best wolves performance they've ever seen. So whilst we were rank they were exceptional.

And therein lies the difference.

The game was built up - in the media - as a tough test for both teams.

One team raised their game when it mattered (to win the 3pts) one team just let whatever was going to happen, happen.

This is just one of the many reasons why WE are the one‘s playing catch-up

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

And therein lies the difference.

The game was built up - in the media - as a tough test for both teams.

One team raised their game when it mattered (to win the 3pts) one team just let whatever was going to happen, happen.

This is just one of the many reasons why WE are the one‘s playing catch-up

I think thats you best post to date.

We are far too easily unhinged or got at.

Its what i thought was going to happen and it did, sadly.

some of our players are attracting outside attention and it looks like they are believing in it.

They need to grow some and match their reputations in games.

[Grasshopper]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think thats you best post to date.

We are far too easily unhinged or got at.

Its what i thought was going to happen and it did, sadly.

some of our players are attracting outside attention and it looks like they are believing in it.

They need to grow some and match their reputations in games.

And the blame goes totally on Bruces shoulders.

He hung the players out to dry.

The front 3 & 4 MFs of Wolves positioned themselves so that their back 3 could push up and be the „safe ball“ to „reset“ & „go again“

Their wide players were taking out both our FBs & Wide players whilst their wide MFs offered support/overlaps and a safe ball. So many times their front man & CM‘s ran the channels dragging us all over the place. Whelan was just dinking to the left and right getting nowhere near the ball and poor Hourihane was left to try and cover ground when he needed another 2 at least to help him.

In the first half Chester & Terry were forced to mark empty the space in front of SJ as Wolves front 7 decided to play wide and the outer channels. It didnt reward them with a first half goal, but in the 2nd half they’d knackered Whelan & Hourihane out, both Adomah & Snodgrass were on yellows and very frustrated so they could push up a little further towards our box and Whelans tired legs, Hourihanes confused look, Elmo‘s „where should I be“ coupled with Hutton wandering here and there, so they had it easy in the first 15mins and a goal was written all over their play.

Bruce‘s version of 2 up top is the same as his 1 up top set up with too much ground for the MF to make up because 1 - Whelan‘s lack of mobility and 2 - Hourihane forced to sit deep. The greater problem we then have is that we have 1 less player in MF giving the opposition acres of room to pass us of the park. Making us even more tired.

How he cant see this is beyond me. If all he does is pick an eleven, DrT needs to either re-shuffle his job description, or re-shuffle his P45

Edited October 15, 2017 by Grasshopper