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Glenn Whelan


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21 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

With time to reflect it was slightly awkward pass from Grealish and shouldn't have been made really. Other than some excellent stats from Whelan. 71 passes 90% complete. 7 accurate long balls(next best 3)

Totally agree with that.

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9 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nah it was just a mistake. It happens and 9 times out of 10 there would be cover. It was a cracking finish by Gayle to be fair. 

Whelan is prone to this mistake though.

It was a cracking bit of closing too.....kills me to say it.

That's where you need deft footwork to avoid it.

Edited by TRO
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We need a good holding midfielder to allow Grealish and McGinn to play further forward, it has been a perfect balance with Whelan in that holding role. We need his positioning, footballing intelligence, calmness and routine there. He never goes hiding either. There was a reason he was played week in and week out at Stoke despite them forking out millions and millions on other midfielders. He did one mistake last game, everyone does now and then, doesn't take away his performances of late.

I don't know about the form of Jedi, but as WBA must attack and have a lot of strong players in the air I would consider playing Jedi if Whelan needs a rest. Jedi is a big game player, a leader with experience who ca be relied on.  Or perhaps he can come in and hopefully close the game towards the end.

If we are in a similar position as last game and need to gamble on scoring Hourihane is the obvious choice. As WBA most likely will attack I would be hesitant and a bit worrying with staring him as the holding midfielder though. The five goals conceded against Forest still springs to mind.

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6 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

We need a good holding midfielder to allow Grealish and McGinn to play further forward, it has been a perfect balance with Whelan in that holding role. We need his positioning, footballing intelligence, calmness and routine there. He never goes hiding either. There was a reason he was played week in and week out at Stoke despite them forking out millions and millions on other midfielders. He did one mistake last game, everyone does now and then, doesn't take away his performances of late.

I don't know about the form of Jedi, but as WBA must attack and have a lot of strong players in the air I would consider playing Jedi if Whelan needs a rest. Jedi is a big game player, a leader with experience who ca be relied on.  Or perhaps he can come in and hopefully close the game towards the end.

If we are in a similar position as last game and need to gamble on scoring Hourihane is the obvious choice. As WBA most likely will attack I would be hesitant and a bit worrying with staring him as the holding midfielder though. The five goals conceded against Forest still springs to mind.

I must say I mentioned Jedinak too. I know he isn't always the most popular choice, but I do think he has the experience and physical attributes for a game of this nature. That said, I think he will stick with Whelan and that's fine by me.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

and Jack was not entirely blameless either, he should not have had the INTENTION to pass it back, he should have turned Johanssen, and seized the initiative.

We do a little bit too much of this in games at times.... i have noticed that Norwich and Sheff Utd do far more intensity than us , hence their position....Leeds do too.

We start seasons slow and we start games slow.....we need a rocket up our ***** from the off.

That error was **** poor.

We allow ourselves to be closed down far too easily....sorry for the rant.

We intentionally slow the game down at times, rest on the ball. We have won 11, drawn 2 and lost 1 in fourteen games because of it. Slowing the game down occasionally is definitely not the reason we finished 5th. 

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12 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We intentionally slow the game down at times, rest on the ball. We have won 11, drawn 2 and lost 1 in fourteen games because of it. Slowing the game down occasionally is definitely not the reason we finished 5th. 

I think it is contributory.

Well the ones above us, don't do it nearly as much.

why do we do that?, are we not fit enough or lacking energy.....I accept you can't be flat out for the whole game, but it plays the opposition back in and concedes the initiative.

I also accept we must be doing most things right as you point out.....I just think we make ourselves an easy target for the close down at times and it appears we make unnecessary hard work of a win......hopefully not tonight.

Edited by TRO
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17 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think it is contributory.

Well the ones above us, don't do it nearly as much.

why do we do that?, are we not fit enough or lacking energy.....I accept you can't be flat out for the whole game, but it plays the opposition back in and concedes the initiative.

I also accept we must be doing most things right as you point out.....I just think we make ourselves an easy target for the close down at times and it appears we make unnecessary hard work of a win......hopefully not tonight.

You answered for me bud. 

Also drawing teams in and looking for holes, setting traps, then recycling up through the gears quickly as the ball heads towards goal is a legitimate tactic.  It's our main go to. It is, quite literally, Smith-ball?

Edited by dont_do_it_doug.
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12 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You answered for me bud. 

Also drawing teams in and looking for holes, setting traps, then recycling up through the gears quickly as the ball heads towards goal is a legitimate tactic.  It's our main go to. It is, quite literally, Smith-ball?

Indeed, on Saturday we were quite literally faced with two banks of five at some stages, it is very difficult to go through the gears and go through them. We continued to pass the ball around the back, very slow, very casual like... trying to lure them out, tempt them into committing themselves. This idea was lost on many. "Get it forward. Go forwud!!!"

Tactical genius in the block next to me had it all worked out.

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3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Indeed, on Saturday we were quite literally faced with two banks of five at some stages, it is very difficult to go through the gears and go through them. We continued to pass the ball around the back, very slow, very casual like... trying to lure them out, tempt them into committing themselves. This idea was lost on many. "Get it forward. Go forwud!!!"

Tactical genius in the block next to me had it all worked out.

Which didn't work, hence plan B. Take the ball to them, suck them in that way, breaking their lines and then use the reverse pass to open up the play. As mentioned by Smith in his post match presser.

Tactical geniuses will then ask why we don't just do that all the time, as they will ask why Hourihane didn't start. As if a football match isn't a fluid, living, breathing thing.  

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3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You answered for me bud. 

Also drawing teams in and looking for holes, setting traps, then recycling up through the gears quickly as the ball heads towards goal is a legitimate tactic.  It's our main go to. It is, quite literally, Smith-ball?

Yeah accept that up to a point Dave....I still think we spend a tad too much time in that mode.....you need good footwork like Jack to capitilise on your points and a working off the ball brain....not sure we all have that.

I guess getting caught in possession or falling over the ball and giving it away, creating hesitancy under pressure, tends to negate some of that.

I am more than happy with Dean, just aware of some of our shortfalls too.

Edited by TRO
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I'm honestly not sure who should start tonight out of Whelan and Hourihane.

If I was Hourihane, I would feel mighty aggrieved if I'm not in the starting 11 after I came on and changed the game on Saturday. Even aside from Whelan's error, he and McGinn were both below par. But just because he will feel aggrieved, that doesn't mean he should start!

As an aside, regarding Whelan's error, what really struck me is the way that he just stops after Gayle runs on to the ball, he's literally not moving. I don't know if he is in shock or if he is confused, but its very strange. You would imagine his immediate reaction would be to chase back as quick as possible, but it looked like his reaction (even before the ball is in the net) is to think "oh well, I've cocked up there". What if Steer and made a save and the ball had rebounded back out, Whelan was literally standing still. Bizarre, but maybe just a bad moment for him in a big game. I thought I was imagining all this, and then Max Rushden on Football Weekly said something along the lines of "Glenn Whelan made an error and then realised he is 70 years old". That sums it up for me, he looked like an old man. If I was West Brom I would be looking at that and be trying to be someone full of energy and speed around Whelan and put him under pressure for the first 10-20 minutes.

This is one of the situations where its nice not to be the manager, as whatever team is picked, if the result isn't right, it seems like 50% of the fan base are going to blame Dean Smith for who he picks as DM tonight.

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2 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

Indeed, on Saturday we were quite literally faced with two banks of five at some stages, it is very difficult to go through the gears and go through them. We continued to pass the ball around the back, very slow, very casual like... trying to lure them out, tempt them into committing themselves. This idea was lost on many. "Get it forward. Go forwud!!!"

Tactical genius in the block next to me had it all worked out.

I can equally understand the cry!!!.....playing too deep encourages what happened and despite a great comeback, we took a good deal of time to break them down.....don't forget their defensive record is not great, we need to test it.

It is very difficult under such circumstances, no one is saying its easy.....but the fact is they still went a goal up, due to our own fault.....them playing that spoiling game.

I also think playing through the line of defenders, with a tricky winger going around the back can unhinge that....but Unfortunately I am unsure we have that in our armoury....hoping Dean adds a bit of that in the summer, Hernandez, Ritchie or Knockaert, type would do fine....I think our wingers are not elusive enough a tad predictable....maybe El Ghazi on his day is ok.

Its not a criticism, because we have done fantastic, just an observation, but I think a number of our players are too easy to close down, particularly the wingers and full backs.

Edited by TRO
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17 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

We need a good holding midfielder to allow Grealish and McGinn to play further forward, it has been a perfect balance with Whelan in that holding role. We need his positioning, footballing intelligence, calmness and routine there. He never goes hiding either. There was a reason he was played week in and week out at Stoke despite them forking out millions and millions on other midfielders. He did one mistake last game, everyone does now and then, doesn't take away his performances of late.

I don't know about the form of Jedi, but as WBA must attack and have a lot of strong players in the air I would consider playing Jedi if Whelan needs a rest. Jedi is a big game player, a leader with experience who ca be relied on.  Or perhaps he can come in and hopefully close the game towards the end.

If we are in a similar position as last game and need to gamble on scoring Hourihane is the obvious choice. As WBA most likely will attack I would be hesitant and a bit worrying with staring him as the holding midfielder though. The five goals conceded against Forest still springs to mind.

I don't think we can go there and defend for the whole game.....we need to score and then manage the game.

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44 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

I'm honestly not sure who should start tonight out of Whelan and Hourihane.

If I was Hourihane, I would feel mighty aggrieved if I'm not in the starting 11 after I came on and changed the game on Saturday. Even aside from Whelan's error, he and McGinn were both below par. But just because he will feel aggrieved, that doesn't mean he should start!

As an aside, regarding Whelan's error, what really struck me is the way that he just stops after Gayle runs on to the ball, he's literally not moving. I don't know if he is in shock or if he is confused, but its very strange. You would imagine his immediate reaction would be to chase back as quick as possible, but it looked like his reaction (even before the ball is in the net) is to think "oh well, I've cocked up there". What if Steer and made a save and the ball had rebounded back out, Whelan was literally standing still. Bizarre, but maybe just a bad moment for him in a big game. I thought I was imagining all this, and then Max Rushden on Football Weekly said something along the lines of "Glenn Whelan made an error and then realised he is 70 years old". That sums it up for me, he looked like an old man. If I was West Brom I would be looking at that and be trying to be someone full of energy and speed around Whelan and put him under pressure for the first 10-20 minutes.

This is one of the situations where its nice not to be the manager, as whatever team is picked, if the result isn't right, it seems like 50% of the fan base are going to blame Dean Smith for who he picks as DM tonight.

The difficulty is supporting the team with undying loyalty.....but at the same time, seeing the shortfalls in their play.

You are right what you say and i guess they all have a flaw of some sort at this level.

glad I'm not the manager.

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We need to get ruthless with Whelan. At the end of the day we're not a charity foundation, but a football club.

Look at what Man City are doing with Kompany. He's had a good season, and been a important part in securing their title, he even scored a title winning goal against Leicester. But they are not renewing he's contract, instead they are looking at the future and getting someone younger in.

We should do the same with Whelan. He's been a good servant to the club but it's time to say goodbye.

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17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We need to get ruthless with Whelan. At the end of the day we're not a charity foundation, but a football club.

Look at what Man City are doing with Kompany. He's had a good season, and been a important part in securing their title, he even scored a title winning goal against Leicester. But they are not renewing he's contract, instead they are looking at the future and getting someone younger in.

We should do the same with Whelan. He's been a good servant to the club but it's time to say goodbye.

Stoke said the same thing a few too many years too early.

but,what makes you think we are not going to do that too.?

Edited by TRO
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I don't know about you guys but I think maybe we should of kept Whelan in and have Hourihane come on as a sub at 60 mins. Hourihane can rip a team up if he's fresh later on where many a PLAYER have lost that ability to be impactful late if they have been on all game..Albion closed Hourihane's shots out to fast at times and I feel that may of been because of Connor wasn't as fresh as he would of been if he'd of come on late.

 

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we didn't move the ball well or quick enough with hourihane, we definitely wouldn't have done it with Whelan, agree with jedinak being a non starter, would have helped at set pieces but not when we had the ball in the middle

think it was good management by smith, hourihane will have a part to play next season, Whelan probably wont

think Whelan will start the final though

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