Ahmed Elmohamady

[One For The Road]

5 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Players should be judged on their performances in a claret and blue shirt.

In that case close the thread!! No point discussing players whether you like them or not until they have played for us. Is that right?

[Michael118]

31 minutes ago, Gillz said:

 

You may think its short sighted, i think its realistic and pragmatic.

 

I'd love us to sign  'players who are a level above the championship', and i think in some cases we have (Terry, Chester, Taylor etc)...but it is nigh on impossible to do this with every signing. Firstly there are the financial considerations - we cant afford / FFP wont allow us to splash £10m on every player in the starting XI. Secondly there's the psychological  considerations - What player in their right mind would be wiling to give up PL to drop down the the championship (unless they are promised stupid wages which would take us back to the financial considerations). Instead we are having to settle with a blend of PL quality, high performance Championship players and players with some experience of promotion. 

 

Now i will agree with you that this is slightly short-sighted, in that it focuses purely on promotion and not how to survive in the Prem once we are there....but as i said before lets win promotion first and then worry about that hurdle when we get there. If last season showed anything its that the championship isnt easy, and the fact that we are a 'big club' gives us no divine right to waltz out way back to the Prem. 

I disagree that it's impossible to build a team with Premiere League potential in the Championship. You don't need to spend 10m on every player to do it either. 

I don't see it as one or the other (focusing on promotion vs Premier League). If you build the squad in the right way focusing on recruiting players with Premier League potential who can also contribute now and appointing a manager who can get the best out of the players promotion would take care of itself. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Michael118

[Gillz]

4 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

I disagree that it's impossible to build a team with Premiere League potential in the Championship. You don't need to spend 10m on every player to do it either. 

I don't see it as one or the other (focusing on promotion vs Premier League). If you build the squad in the right way focusing on recruiting players with Premier League potential who can also contribute now and appointing a manager who can get the best out of the players promotion would take care of itself. 

You've already changed your required level though from 'players above the championship' to now players with 'Premier League potential'. Potential is a dangerous word to use as its entirely subjective, one could argue that the 'high performing players in the championship' which you've dismissed have such potential... 

 

Don't get me wrong though - I'm all for building a squad that could survive in the PL. The issue is, whilst It's not impossible it is extremely tough. Hence the high number of teams who go up and then come straight back down. Obviously there are exceptions, but you'll often find these are teams that have had time to build and develop teams. Unfortunately our size and stature doesn't allow for a few seasons of stopping the rot and building together a winning formula. We the fans are demanding promotion and (rightly) so will accept nothing less - thus the board and management are looking for quick fixes and short term solutions. It's a far from ideal catch 22.

[Dr_Pangloss]

He'll be good enough at this level, better than Hutton, not a bad signing at all, especially for the fee.

[Villarocker]

Not surprised Bruce has gone in for him, if true. I doubt he would make much different to us apart from the fact I can see us definitely reverting to a 3-5-2 formation with Jedinak sitting in front of the back four and Lansbury and Hourihane ahead of him.

[Demitri_C]

The only thing is I thought Bruce was targeting players who can handle playing for big clubs. I wouldn't call Hull and Sunderland big clubs 

[VILLAMARV]

We have 1 right winger in Adomah. When he was out last season we missed him massively. I understand if people personally don't rate him, but I can't understand why people are banging on about right backs.

Like most I'm hardly over the moon but this signing makes so much sense to me. £1m for a guy with over 150 premier league appearances, 80 odd championship appearances in 2 seasons resulting in 2 promotions.

I have no idea how he will shape up against Adomah, but I suspect he's going to be a far better player than Bacuna. And if this means the end of him he'll be a cult hero instantly.

Does he not cross like Beckham? Does he not do step overs like Ronaldo? We are where we are. If he can just recycle possession from our own throw ins he'll be a god send ffs.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, KHV said:

I'm not convinced we need a 4th right back

We don't.

If we were buying a player who could ONLY play right back and would be 4th choice it'd be mental.

But we're not.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

The only thing is I thought Bruce was targeting players who can handle playing for big clubs. I wouldn't call Hull and Sunderland big clubs 

Sunderland and Villa are actually very similar in most facets.

The only real separator is our European success and a slightly better record of seasons spent in the top flight, not that it's particularly relevant to the conversation.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

The only thing is I thought Bruce was targeting players who can handle playing for big clubs. I wouldn't call Hull and Sunderland big clubs 

"can handle playing for" doesn't mean "has played for"

[lexicon]

2 hours ago, Michael118 said:

I disagree that it's impossible to build a team with Premiere League potential in the Championship. You don't need to spend 10m on every player to do it either. 

I don't see it as one or the other (focusing on promotion vs Premier League). If you build the squad in the right way focusing on recruiting players with Premier League potential who can also contribute now and appointing a manager who can get the best out of the players promotion would take care of itself. 

Yeah it's easy to do.. 

 

.. On Football manager. 

 

Not so much in reality. 

[Eastie]

14 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Sunderland and Villa are actually very similar in most facets.

The only real separator is our European success and a slightly better record of seasons spent in the top flight, not that it's particularly relevant to the conversation.

Disagree with this - Sunderland have spent far more of the last 40 years outside the top flight than villa and I think have only finished once in the top 6 in the last 50 years .

gate wise we may be similar but that's about all , the last 50 years villa have been a long way ahead of Sunderland in almost every department . 

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, wilko154 said:

If we signed Ronaldo Villa fans would complain that we are overspending, he's too old, they don't like him off the field...

Negativity is what we do

I'm amazed that after 5 years these posts still exist. This mocking of negativity is actually mocking of being bang on the money as everyone who has been negative about this club in recent years has been proven to be 100% correct, yet they're mocked as though they are insane. 

The unrealistic opinions have been the positive everything is going to be fine posts over the last few years. 

 

[Demitri_C]

27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

"can handle playing for" doesn't mean "has played for"

But how can you handle playing for a big club if you haven't  played for one at 29 years old? 

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

Like most I'm hardly over the moon but this signing makes so much sense to me. £1m for a guy with over 150 premier league appearances, 80 odd championship appearances in 2 seasons resulting in 2 promotions.

 

I think you are spot on.

The best you can hope the club do in terms of transfers at the moment, due to the reality of where we are, is either bring in promising players from below the Premier League who you believe can step up and perform at the top end of the Championship. Or you go for players that aren’t quite good enough for the Premier League or have been good enough but are now on the wane at that level. 

That is what we are doing. We have signed a number of players under Bruce – Hogan, Bree, Lansbury who have played in lower leagues for relatively small clubs in comparison to ourselves who the manager believes can step up and perform in a side challenging for promotion. He has also signed Terry who has excelled in the top flight and we are on the verge of signing Whelan who has performed consistently well for a mid table Prem team. Jedinak would also fall into this bracket. These players are on the wane but can still excel at this level. Then you have the likes of Taylor and Elmohamady who are perhaps not quite good enough to be playing regularly in the top flight but at this level can more than hold their own. Chester would be another one who perhaps isn’t quite good enough for anything other than a struggling Prem side but at this level looks very good.

I like how the squad is taking shape and it looks to be developing a nice mix of top flight experience and players who won’t be fazed by the challenge here, and who have the qualities to influence others, and a number of players who are still on the up and desperate to prove themselves at a higher level. That kind of mix on paper at least should be the ideal one for achieving promotion. It is then down to the manager to employ them in a way to get the best out of them.

Edited July 18, 2017 by markavfc40

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

But how can you handle playing for a big club if you haven't  played for one at 29 years old? 

Because not having played for one doesn't mean you couldn't "handle" it. The two things don't correlate.

 

Bruce is talking about players who won't crumble under the pressure of a big club's expectancy. It's nothing to do with ability.

[Demitri_C]

I am wondering if we have sold elphick and using that money to sign elmo 

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Because not having played for one doesn't mean you couldn't "handle" it. The two things don't correlate.

 

Bruce is talking about players who won't crumble under the pressure of a big club's expectancy. It's nothing to do with ability.

If Bruce has signed him three times I would like to think he is capable of not crumbling under pressure, as we need more of these types like Terry and Jedinak not fake leaders like Elphick and Richards 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Demitri_C

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

The only thing is I thought Bruce was targeting players who can handle playing for big clubs. I wouldn't call Hull and Sunderland big clubs 

They are bigger clubs than Barnsley, Bristol City, and Brentford though no? (Where we have gotten some of our last set from)

They've been in the Premier League.

[Michael118]

3 hours ago, Gillz said:

You've already changed your required level though from 'players above the championship' to now players with 'Premier League potential'. Potential is a dangerous word to use as its entirely subjective, one could argue that the 'high performing players in the championship' which you've dismissed have such potential... 

 

Don't get me wrong though - I'm all for building a squad that could survive in the PL. The issue is, whilst It's not impossible it is extremely tough. Hence the high number of teams who go up and then come straight back down. Obviously there are exceptions, but you'll often find these are teams that have had time to build and develop teams. Unfortunately our size and stature doesn't allow for a few seasons of stopping the rot and building together a winning formula. We the fans are demanding promotion and (rightly) so will accept nothing less - thus the board and management are looking for quick fixes and short term solutions. It's a far from ideal catch 22.

When I said "a level above the Championship" I meant in terms of ability.

Potential is subjective but there is also skill involved in picking the right players.

I didn't dismiss that some of the players we signed could play in the Premier League. In the main though I think we've signed Championship quality players and the money could have been spent a lot more wisely elsewhere.

Whilst it is important, I think the time needed to build and develop a team is overemphasized. I'd say the most important factor in building a squad for long term success is having the right players and manager in place. If it was done right there is no reason we couldn't have been promoted last season when you consider how much money we spent compared to other clubs.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Michael118