John Terry

[Zatman]

I think Terry has to deal with the fact this will follow him around his entire career, its like Pep and his failed drugs test or Roy Keane and his Haaland tackle etc. 

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, Mjvilla said:

Innocent until proven guilty... Unless you're proven innocent in which case you're guilty.

Found not guilty in the courts. Found guilty by the FA.

To convict someone in the courts you've got to have concrete evidence. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he didn't say it and it didn't have an effect on Ferdinand. I was disappointed he didn't take up the oppportunity to participate in the documentary.

[Keyblade]

5 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Innocent until proven guilty... Unless you're proven innocent in which case you're guilty.

He's on video clearly saying what was alleged, and he hasn't even denied it. Unless you have absolute unwavering faith in the justice system, this logic doesn't fly. He was also found guilty by the FA for what it's worth.

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

Found not guilty in the courts. Found guilty by the FA.

To convict someone in the courts you've got to have concrete evidence. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he didn't say it and it didn't have an effect on Ferdinand. I was disappointed he didn't take up the oppportunity to participate in the documentary.

Yeah, I could accept that he's moved on and learned from that incident and tried to make amends, but he's making zero effort to show that. He's basically saying "I got cleared by the courts so suck it, leave me alone". Yeah okay JT, then don't get mad when people still think you're a racist because you called a man a black word removed on live television.

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Yeah, I could accept that he's moved on and learned from that incident and tried to make amends, but he's making zero effort to show that. He's basically saying "I got cleared by the courts so suck it, leave me alone". Yeah okay JT, then don't get mad when people still think you're a racist because you called a man a black word removed on live television.

surely you have witnessed the careful manipulation of the media, in current times.....He has faced the music and conclusions have been recorded.....what more is there to say.....He reserves the right to respond how he feels....why would he want to get embroiled with a TV programme......Martin Bashir has given a good indication of that.

No, reasonable minded individual would condone those words and no reasonable minded person would use them, but he is human and made a grave error of judgement.....but lets not forget, disparaging references were allegedly made during that game by Anton to JT too....2 wrongs don't make a right, but lets not try to be judge and jury, when an official one has already given their verdict.

Why would Anton want to re-open old wounds?

We have to remember sadly racism is not just a one way street and while we are all anxious to eradicate any form of it.....perspective also has to be considered, it was 9 years ago

Edited December 3, 2020 by TRO

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

surely you have witnessed the careful manipulation of the media, in current times.....He has faced the music and conclusions have been recorded.....what more is there to say.....He reserves the right to respond how he feels.

No, reasonable minded individual would condone those words and no reasonable minded person would use them, but he is human and made a grave error of judgement.....but lets not forget, disparaging references were allegedly made during that game by Anton to JT too....2 wrongs don't make a right, but lets not try to be judge and jury, when an official one has already given their verdict.

Why would Anton want to re-open old wounds?

We have to remember sadly racism is not just a one way street and while we are all anxious to eradicate any form of it.....perspective also has to be considered.

The point I'm making is that it doesn't look like he thinks he made a grave error. I reserve the right to have my opinion on the matter that doesn't defer to a dubious courts system and their decision.The fact that it was quickly swept under the rug at the time is an indictment of society and not a commentary on the issue itself. 

With regards to Anton, he specifically mentioned he did not want to harp on the incident for this program so you are being unfair to him. The fact remains that this incident is pretty much inescapable in a discussion about racism in football.

Also what do you mean racism is not a one way street? Are you implying that Anton was racist to Terry in return?

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The point I'm making is that it doesn't look like he thinks he made a grave error. I reserve the right to have my opinion on the matter that doesn't defer to a dubious courts system and their decision.The fact that it was quickly swept under the rug at the time is an indictment of society and not a commentary on the issue itself. 

With regards to Anton, he specifically mentioned he did not want to harp on the incident for this program so you are being unfair to him. The fact remains that this incident is pretty much inescapable in a discussion about racism in football.

Also what do you mean racism is not a one way street? Are you implying that Anton was racist to Terry in return?

That is supposition and is unhelpful.....none of us know that, only his close confidentes.

Of course you are entitled to have your opinion as I am mine.

I am not trying to be unfair on Anton, (I wish it never happened to him) (but he has instigated in..digging it up....who else has?)....any more than you are trying to be unfair to JT.

How was it swept under the rug when it went to court and the FA Launched their investigation and subsequent findings, to which JT was subjected to a hefty fine and the humiliation to go with it....He has been chastised once.

I was implying that in a general sense not specifically to Anton.....Racism is not a one-way street.

Racism in any walk of life is abhorrent, not just football and it is right to be raised as high profile, in current times.....my point is, and final point on this, The case is closed and both parties, should put it behind them.

Edited December 3, 2020 by TRO

[Keyblade]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is supposition and is unhelpful.....none of us know that, only his close confidentes.

Of course you are entitled to have your opinion as I am mine.

I am not trying to be unfair on Anton, (I wish it never happened to him) (but he has instigated in..digging it up....who else has?)....any more than you are trying to be unfair to JT.

How was it swept under the rug when it went to court and the FA Launched their investigation and subsequent findings, to which JT was subjected to a hefty fine and the humiliation to go with it....He has been chastised once.

I was implying that in a general sense not specifically to Anton.....Racism is not a one-way street.

Racism in any walk of life is abhorrent, not just football and it is right to be raised as high profile, in current times.....my point is, and final point on this, The case is closed and both parties, should put it behind them.

It is case closed, and all the evidence unfortunately points to JT being a racist, as he certainly hasn't done anything since then to dispel that notion. My point about society is that there isn't really much of the shame you talk about. As you say, he got slapped with a fine and it was quickly forgotten about. People's careers have been blighted by far less, but he seems to be completely unblemished.

This documentary sounds like a perfect opportunity for him to set the record straight and intimate how he's grown as a person since then, so his refusal to be part of it is disappointing. As you say I guess only JT and his family know for sure, but from the outside looking in, it doesn't look like anything has changed. He did something abhorrent, got a slap on the wrist, and everything went back to normal shortly after.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It is case closed, and all the evidence unfortunately points to JT being a racist, as he certainly hasn't done anything since then to dispel that notion. My point about society is that there isn't really much of the shame you talk about. As you say, he got slapped with a fine and it was quickly forgotten about. People's careers have been blighted by far less, but he seems to be completely unblemished.

This documentary sounds like a perfect opportunity for him to set the record straight and intimate how he's grown as a person since then, so his refusal to be part of it is disappointing. As you say I guess only JT and his family know for sure, but from the outside looking in, it doesn't look like anything has changed. He did something abhorrent, got a slap on the wrist, and everything went back to normal shortly after.

you are making too many suppositions for my liking...I don't think for one minute Tyrone Mings would work comfortably with him, if such an accusation was bona fide...especially in view of Tyrones work of this sensitive subject.

I was happy to comment.....but I now want to leave you it....because I disagree with your accusation of JT.

[Keyblade]

Just now, TRO said:

you are making too many suppositions for my liking...I don't think for one minute Tyrone Mings would work comfortably with him, if such an accusation was bona fide...especially in view of Tyrones work of this sensitive subject.

I was happy to comment.....but I now want to leave you it....because I disagree with your accusation of JT.

It's not an assumption, I said based on the evidence, it does appear to be the case. There is evidence of him being racist. Unfortunately there isn't any to suggest he has changed or grown since then. Which is the whole point I'm making. This was an opportunity to present some, and he refused to do so which is disappointing.

Speaking of suppositions, is the bolded not a supposition? You don't have any evidence for that, nor do you have any in favour of JT to be frank. 

[villalad21]

Off topic but do you think Rooney would actually do well as their manager? I have my doubts.

[Rich192]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Off topic but do you think Rooney would actually do well as their manager? I have my doubts.

I am very confident that he will be terrible. Has no charisma and no intelligence. 

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Off topic but do you think Rooney would actually do well as their manager? I have my doubts.

What colleen, absolutely

[lexicon]

On 02/12/2020 at 22:27, MotoMkali said:

Twice in the last 20 games. A bit of an overreaction I would say. The positioning was off for the free kick because it was closer in and mcginn lost his man for the corner. Not exactly a zonal issue. 

If that's the case, then I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit that I was wrong - it's certainly felt like an issue lately, but feelings aren't facts. 

[villa4europe]

13 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Off topic but do you think Rooney would actually do well as their manager? I have my doubts.

They're currently sat bottom so he can't be worse... 

Unfortunately for him I would guess that based on their size, history and even recent playoff final berth and just the nature of thevchampionship the expectation of "do well" would be promotion and to do that you need good loan signings, no injuries over a long hard season, confidence and a bit of luck as well as the obvious managerial ability 

If he can get some of these decent youngsters on loan from utd then he might have a push for it next season, if he can find a mount or Abraham or white to go there for a year it makes a massive difference 

They currently have 1 loan player, a 24 year old CB from Brighton 

[hippo]

17 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He's on video clearly saying what was alleged, and he hasn't even denied it. Unless you have absolute unwavering faith in the justice system, this logic doesn't fly. He was also found guilty by the FA for what it's worth.

He was acquitted by the legal system. He probably doesn't give a toss about any other opinions.

If he runs around shouting I'm not a racist - he's going to be more tagged with that label than if he just keeps his gob shut. 

[villalad21]

Here we go..

Wish they would just move on from it. JT has moved on and learned from it, and is certainly no racist. I don't see a reason to bring back a 15+ year old case and dwell on it. 

I'll quote the movie Frozen. Let it go, let it go

 

[TRO]

On 03/12/2020 at 14:12, sparrow1988 said:

Found not guilty in the courts. Found guilty by the FA.

To convict someone in the courts you've got to have concrete evidence. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he didn't say it and it didn't have an effect on Ferdinand. I was disappointed he didn't take up the oppportunity to participate in the documentary.

Did he want to be found guilty twice, then?....Trial by TV being the third.

its tragic how it has Affected Anton....It is so,so regretful.

but there are 2 parties here too and their families to consider...."let sleeping dogs lie" otherwise its bordering on Voyeurism.

Edited December 4, 2020 by TRO

[samjp26]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Here we go..

Wish they would just move on from it. JT has moved on and learned from it, and is certainly no racist. I don't see a reason to bring back a 15+ year old case and dwell on it. 

I'll quote the movie Frozen. Let it go, let it go

 

Not being funny mate but it doesn't really matter if you feel there is no reason, or any of us actually. Anton Ferdinand feels the way he does, that is up to him, and regardless of JT deciding he wants to move on or not it has no bearing on whether Ferdinand feels aggrieved about being called a "black word removed" while at work.

[troon_villan]

AF is entitled to feel upset about it but why does he need to dredge it up in the media?  I think that's what's raising most peoples eyebrows.