TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: There's a sciencey reason for it, basically it keeps water out of the building, the water is driven down the back face of the cladding due to the ventilation in the opposite way in which the fire seems to have been driven up Yeah I get that and can see the logic but it's a huge risk as I suspect has just been demonstrated. All in order to give some fairly terrible living conditions a cosmetic face lift. I will reserve judgment but if the cladding has contributed to the severity of the fire and in turn the deaths then I'll reprise my previous view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, darrenm said: It was always going to have some political angle, so here it starts. Apparently Gavin Barwell, May's new chief of staff, knew there was a risk of this when he was housing minister after an all-party group created a report recommending sprinkler systems were installed http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-mays-chief-staff-sat-10620357 To be fair to Barwell, he'd only been housing minister for a year before the GE was called. Austerity politics. Not quite. Clearly in tall blocks of flats there needs to be legislative change. In Wales, where sprinklers are mandatory even in domestic properties, there has been a real issue with technical delivery. The installation and design process was not clearly thought out and more importantly sustainable water pressures barely featured in the solution. This has left many people with sprinklers that don't work properly, or at all, and consequently delayed the supply of homes and perhaps put people in danger. It's been lost in the whole conversation but local government (local politicians) can require sprinklers as a planning condition. LA's shouldn't always get away with picking and choosing what central govenment is blamed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 12 fatalities confirmed and expected to rise. Just grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 just said they managed to rescue 68 from the tower - that's bloody impressive given those fires. That total is exclusive of those already mentioned that had gone to hospital I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I expect they'll have to pull the remains of that tower block down at some point. Its one of those scenarios I expect it takes quite some time to sink in what has happened for the "lucky" ones who got out. To have lost absolutely everything in an instant like that . The local community look to be doing a great job supporting the occupants as best as possible. I just saw something saying the local mosque is open for people to go inside to rest, eat or sleep. Edited June 14, 2017 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Genie said: mosque is open for people to go inside to rest, eat or sleep. Indeed it has, I'm guessing the Daily Mail will focus on the efforts of others though. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: Not quite. Clearly in tall blocks of flats there needs to be legislative change. Since the time these were built l(late 60's / early 70') in this specific case 1974 anyone who has been in Government and specifically the department that can legislate and they haven't looked at the safety conditions and improved them as a matter of course needs to have a look at themselves. It's part of their job, I know its easy after the event but its not the job of forums to come up wit this stuff, they get paid to do this stuff ? The safety and well being of the population should be a priority ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: The safety and well being of the population should be a priority ? Has that ever been true of a Tory Government? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 RIP to the victims. Awful photos. Like something out of a disaster movie. I'm staggered how quickly it spread I've lived in flats for the last 9 years, always top floor, although they are low rise (4 story max) but it has crossed my mind before what would happen if the one stairwell was blocked with fire. I have sprinklers in my current apartment and being 4 stories, I could probably jump and sustain nothing more than broken ankles, buts it not a situation I ever hope to face. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, Xela said: RIP to the victims. Awful photos. Like something out of a disaster movie. I'm staggered how quickly it spread I've lived in flats for the last 9 years, always top floor, although they are low rise (4 story max) but it has crossed my mind before what would happen if the one stairwell was blocked with fire. I have sprinklers in my current apartment and being 4 stories, I could probably jump and sustain nothing more than broken ankles, buts it not a situation I ever hope to face. In vast majority of cases the brigade would get you out in a 4 story rise without too much trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 37 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Has that ever been true of a Tory Government? I think this sort of thing can be forgotten by any government I would think, it's not a vote winner I suppose for one and with buildings like that I could see it forever in a loop of knock it down / spend money on it no becasue we might X,Y to it one day. No point spending millions if you think it will be leveled anyway has some bearing on it I suppose. Still, it's really sad and even if you survive you have got nothing, I can't imagine it man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 43 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Since the time these were built l(late 60's / early 70') in this specific case 1974 anyone who has been in Government and specifically the department that can legislate and they haven't looked at the safety conditions and improved them as a matter of course needs to have a look at themselves. It's part of their job, I know its easy after the event but its not the job of forums to come up wit this stuff, they get paid to do this stuff ? The safety and well being of the population should be a priority ? they did, it was called the decent homes scheme https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7812/138355.pdf my experience of it is that the main target was sustainability, reducing energy loss etc, which if the recent refurb of this tower block was external cladding and windows and works to the heating sounds like what they did too did see on the news a bloke outside the contractor, naming and shaming them and then naming and shaming the subcontractor who installed it too, no mention of the architect who would have specified the product and designed how it was installed...or the council project manager who signed off the works...or the building control officer who signed it off on building regs... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Accident waiting to happen according to a former resident. Don't want to pre-judge but does sound like The management ARE TO BLAME. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, villa4europe said: they did, it was called the decent homes scheme Just opened that doc, did a find "Fire", 1 result. Gas Fire's was the only result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 It looks like the casualties are going to be huge, haven't seen many who have escaped from anything higher than the 4th floor, there where 24. The whole situation seems surreal , the community appears to have come together but there's seems to be very little official leadership. Reporters seen unable or unwilling to comment on numbers but the faces of the fire and ambulance chiefs while the mayor of London was being interviewed said it all, so tragic its beyond comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 The panels look like the cause , see the link for report on previous fatal fire Cladding Panels the cause of fire spread Quote Councils have been warned over the use of insulation panels on high-rise buildings, after tests revealed they are “likely” to have caused a devastating fire to rip through a tower block last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 45 minutes ago, tinker said: Reporters seen unable or unwilling to comment on numbers but the faces of the fire and ambulance chiefs while the mayor of London was being interviewed said it all, so tragic its beyond comprehension. I guess people don't want to, or even think about putting a number on it yet. It could be hundreds maybe? Beyond belief. I guess it will take time to determine cause of fire, if it is even established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2017 As said earlier, the death toll could be sobering. The fire started on the 4th floor, the building has 24 floors, 4 flats per floor and up to 4 bedrooms per flat. Even if you assume each bedroom only had 1 occupant, the numbers quickly get horrific, even if you only count from 4 up. I just hope lots of people managed to get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Just opened that doc, did a find "Fire", 1 result. Gas Fire's was the only result. I know yeah, like I said these returbs focus on energy efficiencies, nothing on bringing emergency lighting, smoke / heat / fire alarms, void detection etc in line with modern building regs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Xela said: RIP to the victims. Awful photos. Like something out of a disaster movie. I'm staggered how quickly it spread I've lived in flats for the last 9 years, always top floor, although they are low rise (4 story max) but it has crossed my mind before what would happen if the one stairwell was blocked with fire. I have sprinklers in my current apartment and being 4 stories, I could probably jump and sustain nothing more than broken ankles, buts it not a situation I ever hope to face. Could get you out of jam one day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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