Chindie Posted November 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 5, 2018 Guys, it's Bonfire Night. You know what would be funny? Mocking the deaths of 72 people including kids. Pwopa lol mate. Quote Footage of a group of people laughing as they burn a model of Grenfell Tower has been branded "sickening and disgraceful". The video, shared widely on social media, shows a cardboard model of the tower, complete with drawings of people at the windows, being set alight. The video's easy enough to find. Here's hoping they get what's coming to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: Guys, it's Bonfire Night. You know what would be funny? Mocking the deaths of 72 people including kids. Pwopa lol mate. The video's easy enough to find. Here's hoping they get what's coming to them. It's sad, grim stuff. The public reaction to it, though, is pretty crap - the calling for criminal prosecutions and demanding that all the people involved be done for a 'hate crime' because 'if not then where will it end'? Edited November 5, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Popular Post Share Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chindie said: Guys, it's Bonfire Night. You know what would be funny? Mocking the deaths of 72 people including kids. Pwopa lol mate. The video's easy enough to find. Here's hoping they get what's coming to them. Aa opposed to celebrating burning catholics like the rest of the population? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, limpid said: Aa opposed to celebrating burning catholics like the rest of the population? far more eloquently put than 'too soon?' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, limpid said: Aa opposed to celebrating burning catholics like the rest of the population? I'd contend there's a difference between gleefully burning an effigy of a tragedy 18 months ago and people oohing and ahhing at the latest offerings from Black Cat because there's a tradition inspired by an execution 400 years ago. Survivors and relatives are still around for a start, and they've not had an ounce of justice. They aren't the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I'd be interested to see how many of the 'outraged' have watched the video. I haven't watched it. The people that have done it are dicks. Social media and the telly and the pious will make them famous dicks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Share Posted November 5, 2018 35 minutes ago, Chindie said: I'd contend there's a difference between gleefully burning an effigy of a tragedy 18 months ago and people oohing and ahhing at the latest offerings from Black Cat because there's a tradition inspired by an execution 400 years ago. Survivors and relatives are still around for a start, and they've not had an ounce of justice. They aren't the same. I'm pretty sure there are still catholics around. I'm not condoning the video. I'm also not condoning burning catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Must have got bored of the fireworks and cats combo, always a time of year that brings out the dickheads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, limpid said: I'm pretty sure there are still catholics around. I'm not condoning the video. I'm also not condoning burning catholics. I think there are still Catholics around. I don't think many Catholics will identify with Guy Fawkes. I also don't think many/any people having a Bonfire are celebrating or condoning burning Catholics. No more than they celebrate Mithras or praise the sun on December 25th. They simply aren't the same. Edited November 5, 2018 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: I think there are still Catholics around. I don't think many Catholics will identify with Guy Fawkes. I also don't think many/any people having a Bonfire are celebrating or condoning burning Catholics. No more than they celebrate Mithras or praise the sun on December 25th. They simply aren't the same. You previously implied that they were the same, but one was 400 years ago. Although you referred to "an execution" showing that you don't know the history. I'm sure the politicians are welcoming such a timely distraction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, limpid said: You previously implied that they were the same, but one was 400 years ago. Although you referred to "an execution" showing that you don't know the history. I'm sure the politicians are welcoming such a timely distraction though. I know the history fully well, I went for the short hand of what most people will remember about what happened to Guy Fawkes. The bonfire tradition derives from people being allowed to have bonfires in celebration of the failure of the plot, and given the basis of the plot and those involved it became associated with anti-Catholic sentiment. I also didn't imply they were the same. Because they aren't. But evidently we disagree and are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, snowychap said: It's sad, grim stuff. The public reaction to it, though, is pretty crap - the calling for criminal prosecutions and demanding that all the people involved be done for a 'hate crime' because 'if not then where will it end'? The police are supposedly investigating it ... it’s incredibly bad taste but a police investigation is just bonkers ... we should build a bonfire and put those responsible on it instead 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, limpid said: Aa opposed to celebrating burning catholics like the rest of the population? To present bonfire night as "celebrating burning catholics" is, as you must know, not at all what people are doing when they attend or organise one. (Some enclaves of NI excepted). Burning an effigy of Grenfell while making mocking comments about the people who died, making fun of their horrendous deaths, mimicking their cries fo help, is a wholly different proposition. I've never been to a bonfire party like that, and I hope you haven't either. The George Cross flag hanging in the background gives a clue. It's racists, fascists, and their sympathisers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, peterms said: The George Cross flag hanging in the background gives a clue. It's racists, fascists, and their sympathisers. No, you're right. If the thread is going to be taken off topic, it can only be for one kind of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, limpid said: No, you're right. If the thread is going to be taken off topic, it can only be for one kind of hate. My point is that one case involves hate, and the other does not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Share Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, peterms said: My point is that one case involves hate, and the other does not. I disagree. It's just more time has passed for one of the events. Guy Fawkes night only became a tradition because of the hate. I dislike outrage by proxy. The families and survivors have complained and it will be investigated by the relevant authorities. It's nothing to do with anyone else. It might be different if the authorities refused to investigate (although I can't see what they can do anyway). The politicians jumped on it as a distraction from this being the last week for a Brexit deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, limpid said: The politicians jumped on it as a distraction from this being the last week for a Brexit deal. news in general? faux outrage to cover up things no one wants to talk about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, limpid said: I disagree. It's just more time has passed for one of the events. Guy Fawkes night only became a tradition because of the hate. I dislike outrage by proxy. The families and survivors have complained and it will be investigated by the relevant authorities. It's nothing to do with anyone else. It might be different if the authorities refused to investigate (although I can't see what they can do anyway). The politicians jumped on it as a distraction from this being the last week for a Brexit deal. No, it's got a lot to do with the rest of us. If we say it's only an issue for the families and survivors, we say one thing about codes of behaviour and the expression of hate at the expense of victims. A dismal vision of an atomised society, more like a post-apocalyptic wasteland than anywhere I would want to live. Ayn Rand meets Cormac McCarthy's worst nightmare. If we say we disapprove of it and will seek to discourage it, challenge it, criticise it, we give a very different message about the kind of society we want and the kind of behaviour we allow to flourish. It's not outrage by proxy. It's just common decency, empathy for other people, and setting standards of behaviour. It's what functioning societies do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 5, 2018 Administrator Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, peterms said: No, it's got a lot to do with the rest of us. If we say it's only an issue for the families and survivors, we say one thing about codes of behaviour and the expression of hate at the expense of victims. A dismal vision of an atomised society, more like a post-apocalyptic wasteland than anywhere I would want to live. Ayn Rand meets Cormac McCarthy's worst nightmare. If we say we disapprove of it and will seek to discourage it, challenge it, criticise it, we give a very different message about the kind of society we want and the kind of behaviour we allow to flourish. It's not outrage by proxy. It's just common decency, empathy for other people, and setting standards of behaviour. It's what functioning societies do. Indeed. Or we accept that society has idiots in it and stop platforming them. Then we move on. Like the catholics did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 How to the video come out? Surely if it's social media Facebook etc it should be a piece of cake to track down the originator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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