Demitri_C Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 On 25/05/2018 at 23:13, snowychap said: No, it really, really is not. It can be pending on circunstance for example arson (not saying in this case but generally speaking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted June 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) Stephen Bush is very good on this today: A year on, I am even angrier about Grenfell 'I think about Grenfell almost every day. Mostly it’s on my way to work: when I reach the bottom of the stairwell in the block of flats where I live, I think of the young mother on the 24th floorwho accidentally let go of her daughter’s hand while they were running down the stairs, and never found her again. Occasionally I think about my oldest friend, who grew up in a block of the same design, who I am rubbish about calling, and I feel a pang of guilt about the fact I never call and relief that it wasn’t his block that went up in smoke. With a handful of exceptions, where either a local council was feeling particularly flush or a young architect was keen to make a mark, most local authority buildings build in that period of intense ambition in public housing from the 1950s – like the tower block I was born in – to the late 1970s – like Grenfell and the block I live in now – are essentially identical inside. When I look at Grenfell I know where the toilets would have been, even though I was never inside. I know what the rooms are like. I know where the exits were. And I know, too, that in the event of a fire, what is meant to happen is that provided the fire isn’t in your flat, if you stay where you are, and close the doors, everything will be fine. But of course, Grenfell residents weren’t fine: if you followed the rules and did what you’re supposed to do, you died. Usually the passage of time means that rage ebbs away, at least in my case. But a year on, I find myself getting angrier and angrier about the Grenfell tower fire and the political response to it. Why am I getting crosser? In part it’s because of the hollowness and the shallowness of the political response to the tragedy. The shallowness is self-evident: the delay in both announcing government funding not only for the tragedy but for blocks with similar problems, that the government responded immediately with extra money for Salisbury but had to be cajoled into not making local councils foot the bill for improvements to their own housing, that the majority of the necessary improvements have not yet been made, that Kensington Council's new leader felt comfortable openly admitting she had never visited any of her borough's high-rise towers. The hollowness has been particularly evident this week. Theresa May wrote this week that she will “always regret” not meeting the residents and survivors when she visited the sight of the tower. But her apology rung hollow because it was missing the vital component of a sincere apology: an explanation. “I will always regret that by not meeting them that day,” the Prime Minister declared, “it seemed as though I didn’t care”. That’s not an apology, it’s a complaint. If you don’t see the problem, think of it like this: if I apologise for calling you an idiot by saying it made it “seem as if I thought you were a fool”, but don’t explain what I was actually thinking, it’s not really a proper apology, is it? It’s simply an attempt to make the issue go away. Elsewhere, it feels as if a full-blown effort is underway to act as if Grenfell was some kind of natural disaster, and not the result of choices made by a variety of people. Grenfell was built to withstand fire, yet due to a series of decisions made over the years, it became a firetrap. That Downing Street has joined organisations across the country in bathing itself in green lights in solidarity with the tower is symbolic of the problem: solidarity with organisations that aren’t ultimately responsible for the condition of people’s housing is wonderful. Downing Street should be offering more than a light show when it has still yet to permanently house two-thirds of the displaced. That light show seems like part of the broader problem of the way that the political class has responded to the tragedy. At the beginning, as well as the seeming indifference from the Prime Minister, the government seemed to have little idea that a large number of people in this country live in tower blocks and its public pronouncements could have been designed to spread panic and fear. Or the flattening of who the 72 victims were, with continual references to them dying “because they were poor”. Many of the 72 were not poor – they included in their number a marketing manager, two architects, and a successful painter-decorator among other well-paid people. The survivors, who have also been let down by the government, are not all poor either: they include leaseholders who have bought their flats at the (eyewatering) market rate. The 72 died because their housing was the subject of snobbery, indifference, and poor management by a variety of people, the scale of which is the subject of an ongoing inquiry. The survivors are being let down for the same reason. That that problem if anything seems to be growing in intensity is why I find myself even angrier today than I was this time a year ago.' https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/06/year-i-am-even-angrier-about-grenfell In the end, after a year, what have the government actually done? They still haven't rehoused the majority of the people affected, most tower blocks that were similarly vulnerable remain so, and they haven't shown any sign of giving more of a toss about inner-city housing than they did before. They have set up an inquiry, although even then they had to be bullied into broadening its scope. Edited June 14, 2018 by HanoiVillan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 An absolute bellend I work with commented on this today. In his view people should get done for this, but any foreigners that had family killed or injured should be entitled to naff all. The fact that they are living in this country should be the only benefit they receive. They should also have to pay for health care. I let him ramble on until I pointed out that his grandad is actually Indian. He's a typical privileged knobhead who looks down on people, and has had everything handed to him on a plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 14, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: An absolute bellend I work with commented on this today. In his view people should get done for this, but any foreigners that had family killed or injured should be entitled to naff all. The fact that they are living in this country should be the only benefit they receive. They should also have to pay for health care. I let him ramble on until I pointed out that his grandad is actually Indian. He's a typical privileged knobhead who looks down on people, and has had everything handed to him on a plate. Your work colleague is a racist word removed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 15, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2018 22 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Your work colleague is a racist word removed. And there's a 99.99% chance he voted for Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, bickster said: And there's a 99.99% chance he voted for Brexit Yes he did, and he's your stereotype Tory. I can't stand him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 word removed Quote A council worker has admitted defrauding around £60,000 from the Grenfell Tower victim fund. Jenny McDonagh, 39, took cash meant for survivors of the tragedy and victims' grieving family members using pre-paid cards. The Kensington and Chelsea Council finance manager spent the funds on trips to Dubai and Los Angeles, expensive dinners and online gambling. McDonagh, described as a "serial fraudster", admitted fraud and theft. She obtained the money "while being neither a survivor or bereaved family member", Scotland Yard said. After the fire, McDonagh withdrew £62,000 over 10 months, Westminster Magistrates' Court heard. Prosecutor Robert Simpson described her as a "serial fraudster" who "lives beyond her means and gambles". He said she used the stolen funds for a "trip to Dubai, Los Angeles, meals in expensive restaurants, hair appointments and personal luxuries for herself". He added: "She spent quite a lot of money on online gambling. She spent £32,000, of which £16,000 was winnings and lost roughly £16,000 in online gambling." McDonagh's marriage has since broken down, the court heard. McDonagh, of Abbey Wood, south-east London, pleaded guilty to two offences of fraud, one of theft and another of concealing criminal property. She was released on conditional bail with an electronic tag and will be sentenced at Isleworth Crown Court at a date to be set. Senior District Judge Emma Arbuthnot said "custody is the obvious place to go" and ordered a pre-sentence report. McDonagh was also ordered to quit her current job as finance officer at a mental health charity and inform the police before taking on any further work. Following her conviction a Kensington and Chelsea Council spokesman said the authority was "shocked" by the fraud and found McDonagh's actions "unforgivable". "We take fraud very seriously and we have always taken action to root out Grenfell fraud wherever it takes place. "On this occasion it was one of our own members of staff who managed to defraud the council by getting past our own systems and processes. This is both shocking and unforgivable. "We discovered the fraud and took action straight away, including strengthening our internal processes. "We apologise to the survivors and families for any distress this may cause." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45354033 I mean I know people are animals but some people are a really special type of scum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I mean I know people are animals but some people are a really special type of scum. It's even worse that she just wasted it. Nothing to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: It's even worse that she just wasted it. Nothing to show for it. I bet she had a great time tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I bet she had a great time tbf. She will like it even more in prison I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: She will like it even more in prison I hope. No she won't. I bet prison is absolutely rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I can only imagine that person has some deep mental problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welnik Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 52 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I can only imagine that person has some deep mental problems. Nah, it's just greed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 53 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I can only imagine that person has some deep mental problems. Quote He said she used the stolen funds for a "trip to Dubai, Los Angeles, meals in expensive restaurants, hair appointments and personal luxuries for herself". Sounds like very shallow mental problems to me. Avarice, consumerism, watching too many adverts, selfishness, utter lack of consideration or empathy for others, lack of any sense of social responsibility, being a bit stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I've not looked in to this in any depth. But my understanding is that somebody working in the local council, literally at a distance from Grenfell where they could smell it, has used money for survivors to go on holiday and have some nice dinners. I think that's beyond consumerism and greed. I like buying things and I can be greedy. This is the behaviour of someone with issues, be it learning difficulties, depression, or whether they are a sociopath. I don't know, it's not my field. But it's hardly greed and too much telly. That's a cop out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 It won't be learning difficulties. Finance Manager is a mid-ranking post requiring experience and expertise, not something that someone with LD is likely to be doing. Since she has pleaded guilty, it should be 3-4 weeks for sentencing, which will include a probation report and also, if there is any perceived need for one, a psychiatric report. So we should get some professional insight at that point, in so far as it is announced in court, taken into account in sentencing, and subsequently reported. My money's on simple criminality motivated by greed, taking advantage of a perceived oppportunity where she didnt expect to be caught, nothing more exotic. She probably doesnt even perceive herself as having deprived anyone of anything. The only noteworthy aspect of this case is the Grenfell connection, but that won't have been anything to do with her motivation. It's a commonplace and everyday crime. Her relative seniority gives her the oppportunity to thieve a little more than average, but there are lots of thieves at this level and much, much higher. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, peterms said: Finance Manager is a mid-ranking post requiring experience and expertise Well... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 9 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I've not looked in to this in any depth. But my understanding is that somebody working in the local council, literally at a distance from Grenfell where they could smell it, has used money for survivors to go on holiday and have some nice dinners. I think that's beyond consumerism and greed. I like buying things and I can be greedy. This is the behaviour of someone with issues, be it learning difficulties, depression, or whether they are a sociopath. I don't know, it's not my field. But it's hardly greed and too much telly. That's a cop out. Come on mate the woman is absolute scum. I'm not letting hee get off with that excuse. Greedy horrible and evil scum is better way to describe her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Well, I've discussed this with my missus. Apparently I'm quite a naive person. She then rattled off a whole list of examples of 'scum' behaviour such as beating up old ladies for a few quid, rape, conmen that empty people's pensions etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I suppose it was inflammatory language! And I suppose I have no idea as to why she would do such a thing. Still her actions are pretty indefensible. It strikes a chord with me. I went down there after the fire, saw and met the locals all asking where the money was going? I suppose until the details of this case come out we'll never know but there are definitely scumbags out there unfortunately. But then I'm judging them by my own moral code eh, which is something we kind of all have our own take on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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