Dr_Pangloss Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 If it's true that the block had no sprinklers or fire alarms then there needs to be manslaughter charges being made. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: If it's true that the block had no sprinklers or fire alarms then there needs to be manslaughter charges being made. I agree absolutely outrageous. In this day and age not even a effing fire alarm? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Plenty of residents stating that they have been warning against something like this for a long time. They have been bullied to move etc. Obviously prime real estate for redevelopment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It was always going to have some political angle, so here it starts. Apparently Gavin Barwell, May's new chief of staff, knew there was a risk of this when he was housing minister after an all-party group created a report recommending sprinkler systems were installed http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-mays-chief-staff-sat-10620357 Ronnie King, honorary administrative secretary of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety and Rescue and a former Chief Fire Officer, told LBC Radio this morning they had “strongly recommended” installing fire suppression systems and sprinklers in 4,000 similar tower blocks across the country. To be fair to Barwell, he'd only been housing minister for a year before the GE was called. Austerity politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bit insensitive that this topic is now Hot! I know puns and such are popular, but that's a little too soon VT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: If it's true that the block had no sprinklers or fire alarms then there needs to be manslaughter charges being made. ive done probably around 30 construction projects in the last 10 years, 4 tower block refurbs, 10+ schools, leisure centres, medical centres, offices etc 1 of them had sprinklers, we just dont do them, i think the regs cover buildings with no compartmentilisation (retail units etc) and buildings over 30m high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, darrenm said: Austerity politics. Exactly. There are actual real life and death consequences to saving a few quid I think with the nature and inherent danger of tower blocks, they all need a root and branch inspection, and not just continue to be managed on the basis that 'it may never happen'. Residents were saying the 'fire doors' were not even hermetically sealed fire doors in that place (then they're not ******* fire doors!). I really hope those in charge get everything coming to them and it's not brushed under the carpet as just being 70s building practices just because the failings can be traced back to those in your article and beyond. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: ive done probably around 30 construction projects in the last 10 years, 4 tower block refurbs, 10+ schools, leisure centres, medical centres, offices etc 1 of them had sprinklers, we just dont do them, i think the regs cover buildings with no compartmentilisation (retail units etc) and buildings over 30m high Sprinkler systems should be standard on anything with 1 point of escape. I'm shocked this isn't already in the regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 53 minutes ago, darrenm said: Sprinkler systems should be standard on anything with 1 point of escape. I'm shocked this isn't already in the regulations. thats because regulations are 2 points of escape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 58 minutes ago, BOF said: Residents were saying the 'fire doors' were not even hermetically sealed fire doors in that place (then they're not ******* fire doors!). they're "half hour fire rated doors" that means they take 30 minutes to burn, they should then have hour rated fire doors on the access routes they dont have to be hermetically sealed, they should have a smoke seal installed in the frame too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: they're "half hour fire rated doors" that means they take 30 minutes to burn, they should then have hour rated fire doors on the access routes they dont have to be hermetically sealed, they should have a smoke seal installed in the frame too Cheers for the info Is there any update on whether the newly-installed external cladding did indeed expedite the spread of the fire? It would be utterly baffling that it was installed in the first place if it was that flammable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Firemen at the scene have been saying the cladding did expedite the fire and caused a vacuum for the fire to channel up to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I agree absolutely outrageous. In this day and age not even a effing fire alarm? There absolutely MUST be fire alarms fitted, whether they failed to some degree is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, omariqy said: Firemen at the scene have been saying the cladding did expedite the fire and caused a vacuum for the fire to channel up to the top. Sadly what I expected. If I had to guess the cladding will have been fire resistant/proof but has been potentially been incorrectly installed and an small gap between cladding and wall has acted like a vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: Sprinkler systems should be standard on anything with 1 point of escape. I'm shocked this isn't already in the regulations. It isn't. But then the regulations are more than a decade old. Someone really should recommend they be reviewed... (they did by the way, several times but that is one for the politics thread and May's new advisor) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Sadly what I expected. If I had to guess the cladding will have been fire resistant/proof but has been potentially been incorrectly installed and an small gap between cladding and wall has acted like a vent. worse than that, its rainscreen cladding, that gap is probably about 40mm and there by design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: worse than that, its rainscreen cladding, that gap is probably about 40mm and there by design Then that is a spectacularly bad idea in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hoping to head down there after work but trying to find out what people need. Some people saying they have got everything and some people saying bring everything! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, omariqy said: Hoping to head down there after work but trying to find out what people need. Some people saying they have got everything and some people saying bring everything! There is an article on BBC that might help, on phone otherwise would post it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Then that is a spectacularly bad idea in my view. There's a sciencey reason for it, basically it keeps water out of the building, the water is driven down the back face of the cladding due to the ventilation in the opposite way in which the fire seems to have been driven up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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