Feminism vs social justice

[Rugeley Villa]

7 minutes ago, maqroll said:

 

Another controversial issue with kids these days is vaccinations and what afflictions they may or may not inadvertently cause as a side effect. I'm not anti-vaccine, far from it, but I totally empathize with parents who have serious concerns with anything that is prescribed their children.

I completely understand parents worries here.

[StefanAVFC]

12 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Did you ween off the medication, or cold turkey? Also, (feel free to not answer) did it mess up your sex drive like mine has?

I went cold turkey, knowing the side effects. And it 100% affected my sex drive.

[maqroll]

31 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

My sex drive went downhill. I literally had no feeling down below and it took me ages to ejaculate. Way off topic I know 

I've got permanent whiskey dick unless I decide to go off the meds...

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Again, this is not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is that we are giving one group advantages that the others aren't getting. This is something that has cropped up recently in unis and it's only getting worse. Being progressive doesn't mean you shut down anyone who isn't a Gender Studies student. Is that old fashioned? If so I'll pack up my briefcase and not mention it again.

I have to agree with @snowychap that you have a very difficult style to writing to engage with constructively, and the paragraph above is an excellent example of the problem. The basic English meaning of the highlighted words represents something so obviously untrue that I have to assume you mean something else, and I have to go off looking for a charitable alternative meaning in which what you've said might make some kind of sense. 

On the topic more broadly, I find the whole subject to be utterly unimportant. Students, upon joining a university, join a student union. Their student union is run democratically, and if they don't like the decisions of their student representatives they are free to vote in new ones who will allow Milo or whoever else to talk to them. Students don't do this, which suggests that - unsurprisingly - they are entirely typical of the rest of humanity in preferring to listen to people they agree with, or else prioritising other issues over politics. 

That the whole issue is just an excuse for older people to bash kids is demonstrated by how narrow the focus is. My father has been attending a Rotary club for more than a decade, and every Monday evening they have an after-dinner speaker. They have political speakers fairly regularly - can you guess their viewpoints? In ten years, how many trade unionists or Palestinian solidarity activists do you think they've invited? I must be missing the outrage over this. 

[limpid]

15 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I straddle the Fence and my balls hurt. Who said it, limpid?

Stephen King?

[Rugeley Villa]

13 minutes ago, limpid said:

Stephen King?

Close

The poet,James Douglas Morrison. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Rugeley Villa

[ThunderPower_14]

I never said there wasn't any wage gap between men and women, I said that the 80% gap is as untrue as it gets. I've discussed this with a lot of both male and female economists and they put the percentile at around 98%. With all the added risks that mostly men take in hard labour I don't know if 2% is much of an issue.

The pay gap issue isn't just a male vs a female doing the same job. That has been (mostly) stamped out at this point, but the real and pressing pay gap issue is that women are still expected to put their career on hold if they want to have a family, which results in men being given more promotional opportunity and therefore earning more.

It's not just about pay rate, it's about opportunity.

 

Here are some other stats that go the other way:

Men are 25% less likely to graduate from our university in Winchester than women - does anyone make noise about this? The system is clearly favouring one gender since first grade where boys are put on pills if they are "boisterous" because feminine behaviour is the benchmark that all students should work to.

Yes lots of noise is made and there is heaps being done about it. Western education has changed dramatically and will continue to change dramatically because we've finally realised that different kids learn differently and need to be taught differently. Men are also significantly more likely to take up tradesman type jobs that pay well but don't require a university education.

 

 

Studies show that men are just as likely to experience abuse as women, by their father, brother, mother, sister, wife or partner. Men just don't speak about it. Women have charities, government funding, government boards and a minister for Women and Equality. Why is there even Women in her title?

When men report abuse by their female partners they are more likely to be arrested than their partner. For the same crime a man serves 60% more time in jail than a woman. 

Men are 4 times more likely to be homeless than women, have you ever heard the term "man's shelter", because I've heard the term "woman's shelter".

I'm a police officer and deal with domestic abuse every day. Yes, men are sometimes the victims of domestic abuse. However the vast, vast majority of genuine abuse victims are women. Women's shelters and domestic violence accomodation exists for women because there is a huge demand for it. A domestic violence offender doesn't just hit. He takes away the victim's support network, he takes away the victim's self esteem, and he takes away the financial means for the victim to look after herself.

Men's rights activists can cry foul that i've used those particular pronouns but I do it because that's the reality in the vast majority of incidents.

 

Men make up 80% of suicide victims in Western Europe and America, 92% of workplace deaths across the globe, 97% of the deaths in combat and close to 80% of homicide victims.

There are countless charities, causes, events etc focused on men's health and there have been for some time.

These stats are meaningless fluff. Men dominate manual labour and dangerous workplace jobs, they dominate frontline combat roles.

The biggest problem with men's mental health is that men want to be considered big and tough and therefore don't talk about their problems and end up killing themselves before they get any help.

 

 

The pendulum needed to be swung back in the 50's, but the sense from older feminists and people who experience these new age feminists every day is that they are arguing for points that are getting more and more obsolete. New Age Feminists don't discuss equality, they discuss women.

The waters get muddled by young women that have no clue what they are protesting or arguing about, it's hard for the other students to make up their own minds when they are constantly dealing with people like below who will ban people from different viewpoints to hold talks and events.

Extreme feminism isn't the norm. The vast majority of feminists are perfectly reasonable. You can't just highlight the extreme ones and try to tar everyone who holds any sort of feminist belief with the same brush. It's absolute garbage.

The problem with the internet in 2017 is that everyone has a platform. The reason someone like Milo Yiannopoulos is banned is because he is a professional troll who incites hatred. He does exactly what you've done here, he takes the extreme end of the scale of things like feminists and LGTBI rights activists and then talks about them like they are representative of the entire movement, then calls the entire movement dangerous. His millions of social media followers who don't listen to anything outside of their right wing circle jerk lap up every word, and they attack people. That's what Milo wants, that's what has made him rich and famous.

What he does is no different from someone talking about the Neo-Nazis that actually exist in 2017, and trying to argue that they are representative of the entire right wing.

[El Zen]

17 hours ago, maqroll said:

Another controversial issue with kids these days is vaccinations and what afflictions they may or may not inadvertently cause as a side effect. I'm not anti-vaccine, far from it, but I totally empathize with parents who have serious concerns with anything that is prescribed their children.

Afaik, these serious concerns are mostly based on 'studies' that have since been proven to be complete fabrications. And these serious concerns can actually be quite dangerous, so I find it very hard to empathize with the anti-vaccine movement. 

[HanoiVillan]

That is an excellent post @ThunderPower_14

[Dr_Pangloss]

49 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

The pay gap issue isn't just a male vs a female doing the same job. That has been (mostly) stamped out at this point, but the real and pressing pay gap issue is that women are still expected to put their career on hold if they want to have a family, which results in men being given more promotional opportunity and therefore earning more.

It's not just about pay rate, it's about opportunity..

Question is what is the best way to deal with it? Naturally taking a substantial amount of time out of the workplace is going to halt your career, it's unreasonable not to expect that. One argument is that having kids in this day and age is a lifestyle choice and not really a necessity, so people should understand the trade offs better. However, given the UK's aging population and immigration policies we are going to need people to pro-create more! So on that basis the state better invest more in child care services and pressurise employers to take a different views on things, at the very least. More mature views on working from home, and the very concept of the working day (does it have to be 9-5? does it have to be 8 hours when many jobs can be done in less time? Thus price the job not hours) should be top of mind. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss

[ThunderPower_14]

2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Question is what is the best way to deal with it? Naturally taking a substantial amount of time out of the workplace is going to halt your career, it's unreasonable not to expect that. One argument is that having kids in this day and age is a lifestyle choice and not really a necessity, so people should understand the trade offs better. However, given the UK's aging population and immigration policies we are going to need people to pro-create more! So on that basis the state better invest more in child care services and pressurise employers to take a different views on things, at the very least. More mature views on working from home, and the very concept of the working day (does it have to be 9-5? does it have to be 8 hours when many jobs can be done in less time? Thus price the job not hours) should be top of mind. 

I agree totally in general. It's not an easy problem to solve.

I'm a huge advocate of flexible work hours where a job allows it. That should happen everywhere.

I know it's possible now but i'd love to see more stay at home dads while the mother goes off and continues her career. I think that will start to happen more and more.

[StefanAVFC]

I know in my industry we're pushing harder and harder to make it so agents can work from home, but technological it's much more difficulty. I could work from home every day if I chose to but I don't like to.

[villakram]

19 hours ago, maqroll said:

I've halved my Sertraline dose to .5mg, the lowest dose, but it still wreaks havoc on my sex drive. Thing is, it keeps a lid on my anxiety which had pushed me to the edge several years ago. Guess I've gone and fully taken this thread OT...

Another controversial issue with kids these days is vaccinations and what afflictions they may or may not inadvertently cause as a side effect. I'm not anti-vaccine, far from it, but I totally empathize with parents who have serious concerns with anything that is prescribed their children.

Ignorant people having serious concerns. OK.

[LondonLax]

6 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Question is what is the best way to deal with it? Naturally taking a substantial amount of time out of the workplace is going to halt your career, it's unreasonable not to expect that. One argument is that having kids in this day and age is a lifestyle choice and not really a necessity, so people should understand the trade offs better. However, given the UK's aging population and immigration policies we are going to need people to pro-create more! So on that basis the state better invest more in child care services and pressurise employers to take a different views on things, at the very least. More mature views on working from home, and the very concept of the working day (does it have to be 9-5? does it have to be 8 hours when many jobs can be done in less time? Thus price the job not hours) should be top of mind. 

Interestingly in the Scandi counries parental leave is very generous and a portion is reserved for the father. This means that when a baby arrives both parents take some time out of their careers (usalluy about 6-12 months each?). 

Then their childcare places are heavily subsidised so both parents can go back to their careers sooner.

They also have the smallest gender pay gap in the world.  

A portion of the pay gap is still down to prejudice though I think. I had read about a study where the same CV is shopped around to different employers, only the name on the top was changed from a female name to a male name. The 'male' CV gets more interviews than the female one unfortunately.

 

[A'Villan]

A reply I gave to a friend who posted on Facebook about women and feminists doing the devil's work in their attempts to remain able to attract and evoke lustful feelings in men well into their years of maturation, and that their wanting to be desired is in return undesirable:

Quote

Feminism, at least from what I have gathered, is orchestrated to undermine the masculine spirit, and consequently divorce us from the balance and partnership we might otherwise share with one another. It's less about empowering women or addressing the injustice and disrespect that people have experienced throughout their lives. That's one issue which I don't really want to say any more about. It's contentious and I'm not sure my views would resonate or even align with others 'consensual reality'. I don't know if I would adopt the view that women are egotistical or conceited for wanting to remain desirable throughout any stage of their lives. I would hope any partner I claim to love and share it all with would feel wanted and be at peace with that being the case. I'm guessing your message is more aimed at bettering oneself instead of glamorizing the superficial and skin deep, still, I don't see it serving to draw attention to it with disapproval. At a guess that would just exacerbate the divide and finger pointing. How can the unaware be aware? And are we all therefore ill-willed in spirit when it is our moment in that position?

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by A'Villan