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General Election 2017

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29 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Sir Humphrey: Yes, but even though they probably certainly know that you probably wouldn't, they don't certainly know that, although you probably wouldn't, there is no probability that you certainly would.

Precisely. 

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I had the leaflet from our local UKIPpie the other day. He is Mike Savage.

In the absence of any clear direction as to pronunciation within his election bumf, I cannot get it out of my head that Savage must rhyme with Farage.

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Tories are back tracking on their social housing pledge now. They may as well have wrote their manifesto on a whiteboard.

People will vote for these words removed. Mindboggling.

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For an idea of how safe my seat is, I've not received a single leaflet from anyone. There's not even any political branding anywhere.

The sum total of propaganda I've received has been 5 seconds of US style attack ads from the Tories between YouTube vids before I can hammer the skip button.

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9 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Supposedly on a zero hours contract and he'll starve to death if Corbyn stops them...

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He caught my eye because he was clapping both Corbyn and May and initially because of his appearance I assumed he was a Conservative. 

Anyway, even if he is well off doesn't mean that he can't ask about zero hours contracts in my opinion.

We shouldn't shame people for challenging politicians we should encourage it. Even if they are hypocrites.

I want everyone to be engaged in politics and I struggle sometimes not to characterise some of the people I strongly disagree with. 

So, I dunno. It's hard during an election. 

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13 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

He caught my eye because he was clapping both Corbyn and May and initially because of his appearance I assumed he was a Conservative. 

Anyway, even if he is well off doesn't mean that he can't ask about zero hours contracts in my opinion.

We shouldn't shame people for challenging politicians we should encourage it. Even if they are hypocrites.

I want everyone to be engaged in politics and I struggle sometimes not to characterise some of the people I strongly disagree with. 

So, I dunno. It's hard during an election. 

Agreed, I also think it's pathetic that some people have looked him up on Facebook to find those pictures. Toff or not, he's a young lad simply asking a question. Clearly he was a bit nervous and perhaps didn't have a massive grasp of the issue but he also didn't come across as condescending a prick like some of the others on the program. 

Edited by Dr_Pangloss
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16 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

 It's hard during an erection. 

:P

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14 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

He caught my eye because he was clapping both Corbyn and May and initially because of his appearance I assumed he was a Conservative. 

Anyway, even if he is well off doesn't mean that he can't ask about zero hours contracts in my opinion.

We shouldn't shame people for challenging politicians we should encourage it. Even if they are hypocrites.

I want everyone to be engaged in politics and I struggle sometimes not to characterise some of the people I strongly disagree with. 

So, I dunno. It's hard during an election. 

Well said. Wanting to end zero hours contracts doesn't mean you want people to lose their jobs, backing Trident doesn't make you a genocidal maniac. 

Its all about demonising the other side to avoid engaging with substantive arguments, and they are all at it. 

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All they need now is for Boris to do something and things will get even more interesting.:ph34r:

Edited by Amsterdam_Neil_D

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1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

Supposedly on a zero hours contract and he'll starve to death if Corbyn stops them...

Did he say that, or did he, correctly in my opinion, point out that zero hours contracts worked well for a lot of students?

And a student in a bow tie and dinner jacket?  Doesn't every single student in the country have the opportunity to get dressed up once a year for a ball?  I know I did when I was a student.  I got my jacket for a tenner off the Bull Ring rag market. 

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Whilst I hate their exploitation and widespread use as a substitute for actual regular work, as a genuine option for people they're fine. But it has to be that. 

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27 minutes ago, Rodders said:

Whilst I hate their exploitation and widespread use as a substitute for actual regular work, as a genuine option for people they're fine. But it has to be that. 

Exactly.  Nobody should be forced on to one, and exploited, absolutely not.  But they're a legitimate option for a lot of people.

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Zero hours contracts are a relatively new concept. If an employer was truly happy for someone to choose as and when they wanted to work then that person could work on a casual basis.  Fixed term contracts simply tie workers into employers with no obligations on the part of the employer.  If this was truly about choice then give employees the choice of whether they want to work on a zero hours basis. If they don't then they should be guaranteed a number of hours work.

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It's an example at the micro end of the scale, but it serves as an example of how zero hours are supposed to work:

Until we sold our house, my wife ran a small holiday cottage business.  We employed the woman next door on a zero hours contract to help clean the cottages and get them ready before changeovers.  We never knew really if the cottages were going to be booked, how long for if they were, and how frequently there would be new guests arriving.  We were under no obligation to offer her permanent hours, and she was under no obligation to come in if we offered her the chance to work.

It worked perfectly for both parties.  If we'd been forced by legislation to give her a set number of hours, we just wouldn't have bothered.

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Said many pages back when I worked in retail in the early 00s we were all on 4 hour contracts, half a shift a week, I still don't know what Corbin plans for scrapping them, everyone on 40 hours? 20? 10? The reality is a fair few people wouldn't survive on a 10 hour contract either

it seems like window dressing to me

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With regard to zero-hours contracts the case of Autoclenz Ltd v Belcher (2011) offers some insights into the sort of abuses which previous governments were willing to tolerate.

As the so-called 'workers' party' New Labour's record is particularly shocking in tolerating such abuses.

It is clear that such betrayals explain why many people became disillusioned with Labour.

Edited by MakemineVanilla

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11 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It's the old stereotype I think, if you're under 30 and vote Tory you have no heart, if you're over 30 and vote Labour you have no brain.  Obviously as I say it's a stereotype, but the break down of voting intention by age and probable social media use suggests that Facebook will ultimately be much more left leaning.  As for the election, the Tory vote seems to have been stable in the mid-40s so it'll be down to how the social media use among the young translates to votes as to the final result and if they can create a hung parliament.

I don't know if this holds true in England, but in America the rule of thumb is that Facebook tends to be home to more right-leaning political sharing while Twitter tends to be home to more left-leaning political sharing. Of course anyone's 'wall' or 'news feed' or whatever shows their friends' opinions, and is almost certainly not a representative sample of the whole. 

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3 hours ago, Risso said:

Did he say that, or did he, correctly in my opinion, point out that zero hours contracts worked well for a lot of students?

And a student in a bow tie and dinner jacket?  Doesn't every single student in the country have the opportunity to get dressed up once a year for a ball?  I know I did when I was a student.  I got my jacket for a tenner off the Bull Ring rag market. 

It was certainly closer to the latter than the former, but I thought it'd be funny to laugh at him as most Sports Direct employees don't wear top hats.

He also goes on to talk about the "gig economy" which is obviously this huge grey zone - are Uber drivers employees?

In terms of students, working at a University at the back end of last year surprised me at how much the timetables are geared around enabling students to work as well as study.  Our course tried to have the lectures consolidated into 3 full days so the students could work a couple of full days and also so those who still live at home and commute in wouldn't have long trips for a couple of hours in lectures.  It was very different than when I was a student.

Overall though, if students were the main beneficiaries of zero hours contracts it'd largely become a moot point when they get free tuition anyway ;)

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