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General Election 2017


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Just now, markavfc40 said:

The biggest load of bullshit I heard yesterday

you obviously missed the part where Liz McInnes blamed May for ruining her mothers funeral by announcing the GE   (on Twitter)

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25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I took exception to your statement that implied I wanted a liberal panel to regulate what thicko right-wingers read, and that I championed left-wing authoritarianism.

Then what's the solution?

Front pages branding judges 'enemies of the people' for simply doing their jobs are wrong. They incite hatred and anger against innocent people. And we can't trust Theresa May or Amber Rudd to condemn them. May is too busy condemning fictitious 'non-Easter' eggs. 

I know deep down that regulation isn't a solution that is realistic, but I;m genuinely worried ta how far the press, especially the Mail, will go when they're unchecked. They don't particularly have the best history with fascist regimes.

Political discourse is at an unbelievably toxic level in this country, and I'd place the blame for most of that on media. Regardless of affiliation.

Your instinct is to regulate that which you don't approve of, i.e. an authoritarian position. That you don't realize it doesn't make it less so.

You don't like the headlines in the Mail most days, neither do I. My solution is not to read it, but I wouldn't try to stop others from doing so if that's their thing, i.e. a liberal position.

It seems you're worried that other people you don't know might be persuaded by the media to hold views you disagree with, but if they are reading the Mail then they already do.. 

Vive le difference, we aren't a united homogenous polity and we don't need to be, democracy wouldn't work if we were.

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11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

you obviously missed the part where Liz McInnes blamed May for ruining her mothers funeral by announcing the GE   (on Twitter)

Doesn’t come close does it to what May said which was a blatant outright lie and therefore total bullshit. Had McInnes made up the fact it was her mom’s funeral it may have been comparable. Unless of course you believe we do live in a united country.

 

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Just now, Awol said:

It seems you're worried that other people you don't know might be persuaded by the media to hold views you disagree with, but if they are reading the Mail then they already do.. 

Vive le difference, we aren't a united homogenous polity and we don't need to be, democracy wouldn't work if we were.

I disagree with both of these statements.

1 minute ago, Awol said:

It seems you're worried that other people you don't know might be persuaded by the media to hold views you disagree with, but if they are reading the Mail then they already do.

I'm not worried these newpapers are fueling different points of view. They've always done that. Both sides. And it's fine. As you said, vive le difference.

I'm worried that they're creating real toxic division with the rhetoric they're pursuing.

As I've stated, labelling judges simply doing their job as 'Enemies of the people' is not persuading people to hold a certain view. It's outright inciting hatred and potential violence against innocent people based on an incredibly loose interpretation of the facts. Where does it end?  At which point do we say enough is enough? As NV said, it's almost as if they're actively trying to start a civil war.

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Vive le difference, we aren't a united homogenous polity and we don't need to be, democracy wouldn't work if we were.

That headline is anti-democracy. It labels those who simply hold a different viewpoint as saboteurs. And it isn't the first time since Brexit.

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24 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I disagree with both of these statements.

I'm not worried these newpapers are fueling different points of view. They've always done that. Both sides. And it's fine. As you said, vive le difference.

I'm worried that they're creating real toxic division with the rhetoric they're pursuing.

As I've stated, labelling judges simply doing their job as 'Enemies of the people' is not persuading people to hold a certain view. It's outright inciting hatred and potential violence against innocent people based on an incredibly loose interpretation of the facts. Where does it end?  At which point do we say enough is enough? As NV said, it's almost as if they're actively trying to start a civil war.

That headline is anti-democracy. It labels those who simply hold a different viewpoint as saboteurs. And it isn't the first time since Brexit.

You're right about the political atmosphere being toxic, though I've genuinely seen far more derision and outright hate spewed about Leave voters on social media than the other way around. 

I suspect most people think it's not very edifying, roll their eyes and go about their day. Ditto with absurd tabloid headlines. 

Writing or saying something stupid isn't the same as inciting violence, it's part of the rough and tumble discourse of a free press. You should point and laugh at the eye bleeding stupidity of the Mail and it's readers, not get hysterical about it. 

Edit: You've just liked the post above this one discussing the PM's  Fuhrerbunker, yet you fret over divisive rhetoric. Bit silly really, isn't it? 

Edited by Awol
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4 minutes ago, Awol said:

Writing or saying something stupid isn't the same as inciting violence, it's part of the rough and tumble discourse of a free press. You should point and laugh at the eye bleeding stupidity of the Mail and it's readers, not get hysterical about it. 

Labeling judges as enemies of the nation/people is not saying something stupid. It's inciting hatred. Labeling 48% of the population as traitors and saboteurs is not simply 'saying something stupid'. I think that's a gross underestimation of the problem.

I'd laugh at the 'eye-bleeding stupidity' if it wasn't so widely read and accepted as fact. That's the scary part. Add The Sun to this, and they aren't some minority paper and their readers aren't some minority party.

Edited by StefanAVFC
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9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

I'd laugh at the 'eye-bleeding stupidity' if it wasn't so widely read and accepted as fact. That's the scary part. Add The Sun to this, and they aren't some minority paper and their readers aren't some minority party.

We seem to have travelled in a circle (it happens when you have one eye closed) so I'll just leave this here.

'The uneducated right wing masses need us better educated liberal types to decide the political messages they are allowed to hear, thus ensuring only our correct views reach what passes for their poor, dumb consciousness.'

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5 minutes ago, Awol said:

We seem to have travelled in a circle (it happens when you have one eye closed) so I'll just leave this here.

 

Quote

'The uneducated right wing masses need us better educated liberal types to decide the political messages they are allowed to hear, thus ensuring only our correct view

 

Really? :D

That's what you got from this exchange? I wasn't saying that in the slightest. YOU made this about right v left. Not me. I am stating that it's fine for both sides to try and persuade their readers to reach a certain political position. Freedom of the press. Vive le difference and all that.

What isn't fine, is inciting hatred again people simply doing their jobs, or labellng half the electorate as traitors or enemies. That has **** nothing to do with left vs right.

Disgusting and hugely disappointing response.

Edited by StefanAVFC
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3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Disgusting and hugely disappointing response.

See that's exactly what I mean about you being hysterical. 

"Inciting hatred!" Were you incited to hatred? Was anyone on this forum? Was anyone at all, or have you just made an assumption about how it made people less intelligent than you feel? 

Have a day off mate, there will be plenty of stuff to genuinely outraged about over the next few years.

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3 minutes ago, Awol said:

"Inciting hatred!" Were you incited to hatred? Was anyone on this forum? Was anyone at all, or have you just made an assumption about how it made people less intelligent than you feel? 

If you can't see how printing out 3 huge pictures of judges on the front page of a major newspaper, labelling them 'enemies of the nation' is inciting hatred, then this conversation is done.

FWIW, i'd feel the same if the Guardian/Independent did it. It isn't anything to do with left/right, so kindly stop playing that card. Ta.

Edited by StefanAVFC
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13 hours ago, snowychap said:

I agree but isn't this at the heart of a real issue in UK politics? That not only are the Tories remarkably seen as economically competent as a default but also that the same kinds of questions (how the hell are you actually going to afford this and bring it to fruition, for example) are not generally asked, at least as dismissively and skeptically, of the Tories as they are of other parties.

 

Often there is a human cost to Conservative policies and it's a currency they're fast and loose with. It's shamefully easier to ignore the human cost of these policies for many in the country who are not chronically ill, disabled, working poor, vulnerable or foreign.

They've their nasty media mouth pieces that have convinced many that Labour caused the International Banking Crisis, the country can't afford the NHS and that if you fall on hard times you're a scrounger with an easy life. 

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1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

That says it all really doesn’t it.

The biggest load of bullshit I heard yesterday came from Theresa May when she said the country is united but Westminster isn’t. I mean really? Those that voted remain being labelled at best remoaners and at worst saboteurs.

As Stefan said earlier in the thread this country is as divided as I can ever remember in my 43 years. Be it those that voted leave or remain, the demonization of those on benefits including disabled people, two tier system of education with the reintroduction of grammar schools, the wilful destruction of public services leading to those with the least most reliant on things such as social care feeling abandoned and the slow painful road towards privatization of the NHS leading to the inevitable end game of decent healthcare only for those that can afford it.  

This country is a million miles away from being united and under this divisive mob that won’t be changing anytime. Quite the opposite.

It's true everyone was together when they wanted bliar out.

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I would be interested to see the figures of where people actually get their news nowadays. 

I think it would be largely online, and this is one of the ways Trump managed to win the American election. His campaign spent millions manipulating the flow of online news. I wouldn't completely disregard the influence of traditional media, but I certainly would pay more attention to online sources. 

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16 minutes ago, jon_c said:

I would be interested to see the figures of where people actually get their news nowadays. 

I think it would be largely online, and this is one of the ways Trump managed to win the American election. His campaign spent millions manipulating the flow of online news. I wouldn't completely disregard the influence of traditional media, but I certainly would pay more attention to online sources. 

As far as traditional print is concerned The Sun & The Mail sell far more than everything else combined on a daily basis. (sun 1.5 mil, mail 1.45 mil)

The one people do not consider usually is The Metro, which now has a circulation of 1.475 million daily.

Apparently Metro now has the highest average monthly readership of any UK national at over 10.4 million.

The Metro & The Mail are both owned/run by DMG media

Edited by LakotaDakota
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Can we have a poll of voting intent in this thread  , just for giggles and to see how big a majority the greens will have in Parliament if VT was the entire electorate  ?

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