tonyh29 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, snowychap said: Rumoured? Where? the FT have this chart suggesting we get (or were getting in 2016 ) 30% of our Gas from Gazprom .. whether that makes it Russian Gas I suppose it's up for debate , though Gazprom are a Russian company , 50% owned by the Russian government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: the FT have this chart suggesting we get (or were getting in 2016 ) 30% of our Gas from Gazprom .. whether that makes it Russian Gas I suppose it's up for debate , though Gazprom are a Russian company , 50% owned by the Russian government Cheers. Unfortunately, it's the FT so I can't look at it any further (paywall). I'd be interested to see the actual data and sources of the data. The Torygraph, for instance, had a piece last year: Edit: missing link Quote Russia’s state-backed gas company reported higher gas sales to Europe again last quarter as energy importers continue to deepen their reliance on the gas giant. Gazprom’s sales climbed by 4.4pc to R1.8tn ($31bn) in the first three months of the year as the appetite for gas grows within Europe and the former Soviet Union. Although the UK does not directly import gas from Russia, Gazprom’s largest European customers are in Germany and the Netherlands, which are closely connected to the UK gas grid through two major pipelines. ... The graphic on there says 'UK - 10%'. Edited March 14, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Cheers. Unfortunately, it's the FT so I can't look at it any further (paywall). I'd be interested to see the actual data and sources of the data. The Torygraph, for instance, had a piece last year: The graphic on there says 'UK - 10%'. It was on a flipboard article a little while back so I can't recall the exact source but the article referred to a Freedom of information request where the gov (?) basically replied along the lines of "the deals between Gazprom and UK based suppliers relate to gas trades rather than physical Russian gas " ... to my mind at least the answer was trying to imply the UK imported zero Russian gas dunno if that's the cause of the differences in the "Gazprom" question ? seems there isn't a straight answer to this question OT but it's weird as I can usually access FT articles .. for that particular one all I had to do was answer a brief survey (which of these 4 films have you heard of ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: the gov (?) basically replied along the lines of "the deals between Gazprom and UK based suppliers relate to gas trades rather than physical Russian gas " ... to my mind at least the answer was trying to imply the UK imported zero Russian gas dunno if that's the cause of the differences in the "Gazprom" question ? seems there isn't a straight answer to this question I missed the link off my previous post. The Torygraph's graphic has their sources as the WTO, Eurostat and US Census Bureau. The one from the FT has BP, Gazprom themselves and national statistics. If you throw the UK government in to the mix too then it's understandable with all of those different sources that there isn't a totally clear picture of the source of all the gas that the UK imports. I'm not sure that the answer was meant to imply what you inferred - I think it's just that an agreement by Centrica to buy x billion cubic metres of gas from Gazprom does not equate to an import of russian gas of that same x billion cubic metres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2018 59 minutes ago, snowychap said: I'd be interested to see the actual data and sources of the data. If you look at the graph, at the bottom it says "bp statistical review of energy 2017". If you google that, the first results are links to pdf and xls for exactly that data. Which might help at least in part with your desire to see the data. Obviously Gazprom and nat stats are seperate google searches. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, blandy said: If you look at the graph, at the bottom it says "bp statistical review of energy 2017". If you google that, the first results are links to pdf and xls for exactly that data. Which might help at least in part with your desire to see the data. Obviously Gazprom and nat stats are seperate google searches. Good luck. Thanks for the facetious reply. I'm aware of search engines and have the ability to read what it says after the word 'sources'. When I said look at the actual data and sources of the data, I didn't imply that I wanted to recreate the work that the FT did to put together their chart (i.e. number crunching from disparate, and not necessarily easily identified, source data). Edited March 14, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 This has been a interesting PM questions for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2018 23 Diplomats to be expelled, that'll hurt them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2018 54 minutes ago, snowychap said: Thanks for the facetious reply. There was no intent of facetiousness in my reply - it's easy to miss the little text in the graph, I did at first. Sorry it seemed that way to you.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, blandy said: There was no intent of facetiousness in my reply - it's easy to miss the little text in the graph, I did at first. Sorry it seemed that way to you.. Fair enough. Apologies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: seems there isn't a straight answer to this question It's probable that the data's always out of date. Just seen this tweet from Peston yesterday which has 39% of gas consumed in the EU as imported from Russia (the Torygraph graphic from last year said 30%): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, snowychap said: It's probable that the data's always out of date. Just seen this tweet from Peston yesterday which has 39% of gas consumed in the EU as imported from Russia (the Torygraph graphic from last year said 30%): found this from British Gas (dec 2017)...for UK supply ... but it mentions Europe and it's saying 35% from Russia & 23% Norway , but kinda in the same ballpark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, tonyh29 said: found this from British Gas (dec 2017)...for UK supply ... Cheers. From that graphic, I'd be surprised if Russia were supplying us with 30% of our gas imports (let alone gas consumption). The gov figures in this pdf say that, in 2016, the pipeline split for the UK was almost 6:1 between Norway and mainland Europe. Quote Table 4.5 Natural gas imports and exports p. 21 I know we're getting a bit bogged down here in what the proportion actually is. I think it's probably just fair to settle on the fact that Russian gas is important to Europe and of some (but less) importance to us. I don't think it's as critical currently as is being suggested in newspapers but it's only going to go one way, i.e. get more important. Edited March 14, 2018 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 hours ago, tonyh29 said: the FT have this chart suggesting we get (or were getting in 2016 ) 30% of our Gas from Gazprom .. whether that makes it Russian Gas I suppose it's up for debate , though Gazprom are a Russian company , 50% owned by the Russian government Most certainly does, Gazprom shut off gas to Ukraine in 2015 on state orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: found this from British Gas (dec 2017)...for UK supply ... but it mentions Europe and it's saying 35% from Russia & 23% Norway , but kinda in the same ballpark So basically... 6 hours ago, ml1dch said: We get nearly half from our own sources (mainly the North Sea). Most of the rest comes from pipelines from Europe. However around a third of the gas used in mainland Europe comes from Russia. So "do we get our gas from Russia?", is basically yes, no and sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Most certainly does, Gazprom shut off gas to Ukraine in 2015 on state orders. I don't think anyone's disputing who Gazprom are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Awol said: First use of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War... again, I’m fine with ‘huge’. Awol and Trump up a tree... More seriously, are you certain that your first use since WWII claim is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: So basically... Don't worry chaps. Uncle Sam will come to the rescue now that they are producing more of the stuff than they know what to do with thanks to the shale boom that happened under Saint Obama the First's watch. Teresa just has to whisper sweet nothings to dearest beloved Donald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2018 7 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Ironically a Russian tanker full of emergency gas docked in Merthyr a few days ago as we were running low its rumoured to be around a third of our supply comes from Russia ... but Presumably we could buy it elsewhere but at a price ? Has global warming become that bad that sea level has risen 186 meters? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2018 @snowychap http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Lords/2016-09-07/HL1673/ Quote There are no pipelines that allow Russian gas to flow from Norway (our biggest source of imports) or via shipped Liquefied Natural Gas (which comes mainly from Qatar). Some gas of Russian origin may enter via pipelines from Belgium and the Netherlands. However Belgium has reported virtually no Russian gas imports over the past 3 years. The Netherlands does report some Russian imports, but we estimate Russian gas via this route would account for less than 1 per cent of the UK’s gas imports, and therefore much less than 1 per cent of our total gas supply. Also, if you go on ask yahooglebing and search for "natural gas imports site:www.parliament.uk" you get other hits which give other data. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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