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Transfer Speculation Summer 2017


Villan4Life

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6 hours ago, bobzy said:

In part, because we're a Championship club.  Xia seems to (perhaps?) want to run the football club fairly efficiently.  He doesn't mind putting money in, but he's not going to dump £200m on us for no reason.  There's very little exposure to his other (massively unknown) entities to gain by sponsoring a Championship team.

That's fine up to a point.  I'm sure most of us after the Lerner debacle wanted a stable club and committed owner first and foremost. 

But this new flirtation with financial prudence above all else is at odds with his mission statement of making the club masters of the universe or whatever it was within 3-5 years. 

Direct sponsorship from his own company to get around FFP would, I am sure, be frowned upon. But surely he is connected enough to secure a large sponsorship deal with a third party in the Far East- even if it is on the understanding that his Recon group reciprocates and puts money their way to the same value. Perhaps not immediately, but over a fixed period of time.

There is always a way to counter such challenges, I'm just not sure the desire is there.  Similar to when Lerner took his ball home when Citeh came on the scene. It's just a bit too convenient.  Did RL honestly think he was the only rich playboy switched on enough to buy a Premier League club?  The odds were always in favour of at least one other club outside of the usual suspects winning the Billionaire Owner Lottery. It just happened to be Citeh. 

My concern last year was we were spunking the TV money in advance.  The way we have switched tack so effortlessly  and so quickly to full-on belt tightening mode now does nothing to dissuade those fears. 

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6 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said:

You need to calm down....points deductions etc...will never happen! Can you imagine the legal wrangling through the courts!

The big clubs get around FFP easily enough, it really isn't worth jack shit in reality. If Xia is as minted as (only) Villa fans seem to think, then why isn't RECON Group the clubs main sponsor? Why isn't it (or any of his other massively unknown entities) on the front of our shirts and paying a ridiculous amount of money to do so? 

Why hasn't he sponsored the stadium to generate funds?

 

I believe they can intervene if sponsors pay what is deemed to be over the odds. I'm sure there was a case with PSG a while back where their sponsorship deal was paying them way more than it was worth. The deal was then looked over in court and lowered to what was deemed an acceptable amount of money compared to other clubs the same standing as themselves were being payed. It's to stop companies linked to the club/owners from pumping millions in through sponsorships to avoid FFP.

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35 minutes ago, 7392craig said:

I believe they can intervene if sponsors pay what is deemed to be over the odds. I'm sure there was a case with PSG a while back where their sponsorship deal was paying them way more than it was worth. The deal was then looked over in court and lowered to what was deemed an acceptable amount of money compared to other clubs the same standing as themselves were being payed. It's to stop companies linked to the club/owners from pumping millions in through sponsorships to avoid FFP.

Their sponsorship deal values them higher than Real Madrid and Barcelona apparently.

Seems legit.

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16 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Their sponsorship deal values them higher than Real Madrid and Barcelona apparently.

Seems legit.

I'm guessing it's a sum that they can get away with. The incident I was talking about was apparently a ridiculous amount more than it should have been. Either way, I suppose we could fiddle a bit more money through using the dr's connections as sponsors. So long as it's not an amount that would raise too many questions such as PSG.

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1 hour ago, HolteExile said:

That's fine up to a point.  I'm sure most of us after the Lerner debacle wanted a stable club and committed owner first and foremost. 

But this new flirtation with financial prudence above all else is at odds with his mission statement of making the club masters of the universe or whatever it was within 3-5 years. 

 

Thats my worry as well tbh. Going balls deep and then tightening the reins has an all too familiar feel. 

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10 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

Jefferson Montero is one of the laziest players going, has about 1 good game every 18 months when, admittedly, he looks the real deal. Don't touch with a barge pole.

I kinda had this suspicion.

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I Don't see a tightening of the purse strings.....I see a threshold of FFP being a hindrance....I see a difficulty getting rid of players surplus to requirement.....I see 2 players who have been relatively expensive in Hogan & McCormack not deliver and I see an owner who knows what he is doing and is keen to not pursue a cavalier route.

We all want good players, but acquiring them is tricky, we can't always be right in our aquisition.....i guess the best we can hope for is getting more good ones than bad....as opposed to getting more bad ones than good, which has been the case in the past.

Tony Xia had done well imo and has given the manager the fluidity to trade.

we now need the players to deliver and then the owner gains confidence and we come again.

We have improved a lot since lerner and still a long way to go......as for Tony's very early comments on where we will be in 5 years.....I took it with a pinch of salt.....i seen it as ambitious exuberance.

But I love him......in a kinda owner/ fan relationship.

ps I still think there will be some new faces

Edited by TRO
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2 minutes ago, tismyk said:

Bookies make Aston Villa new favourites for West Ham's Robert Snodgrass, leapfrogging Sheffield Wednesday,

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/08/03/bookies-make-aston-villa-new-favourites-for-west-hams-robert-sno/

Always liked Snodgrass,

Would love this to be true. exactly the type of player we need and have been crying out for since January.

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50 minutes ago, TRO said:

I Don't see a tightening of the purse strings.....I see a threshold of FFP being a hindrance....I see a difficulty getting rid of players surplus to requirement.....I see 2 players who have been relatively expensive in Hogan & McCormack not deliver and I see an owner who knows what he is doing and is keen to not pursue a cavalier route.

We all want good players, but acquiring them is tricky, we can't always be right in our aquisition.....i guess the best we can hope for is getting more good ones than bad....as opposed to getting more bad ones than good, which has been the case in the past.

Tony Xia had done well imo and has given the manager the fluidity to trade.

we now need the players to deliver and then the owner gains confidence and we come again.

We have improved a lot since lerner and still a long way to go......as for Tony's very early comments on where we will be in 5 years.....I took it with a pinch of salt.....i seen it as ambitious exuberance.

But I love him......in a kinda owner/ fan relationship.

ps I still think there will be some new faces

 

TRO posting perfection. Right there on a plate.......well on a tablet screen. 

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9 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said:

We did spend bucket loads yes....from transfer monies recieved and premier league parachute payments. No extra investment from the owner really was there?

FFP allows a £13m loss per season (EFL now in line with Premier League)...this is reviewed over a 3 year period. We are using the FFP line as a get out in my opinion. I highly doubt the owner has the kind of funds he makes out, or at least if he does have them, he damn well ain't gonna be pumping into Villa!

edit:

I found this statement online. Clearly the clubs losses over the last 2 seasons are way short of the FFP limit....yet Wyness is saying we are close to breaching? 

We've been cutting costs and wage bills since Lambert joined. 

statement.thumb.jpg.a095e3f54f556982dd47e16c24b31068.jpg

This really confused me at first...but actually it's part of the massive complication...these are the accounts for "Aston Villa FC Limited".  You can also search for "Aston Villa Football Club Limited", which shows a bigger loss.  Ultimately, both of these (and other legal companies) are owned by our parent, which was then Reform Acquisitions Limited (since renamed Recon Acquisitions Limited).  There you'll see the £81m loss, sadly.

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9 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said:

I've seen that report.....but tell me how that correlates with the official statement released by the club?

Wyness says we have lost £83.3m over the last 3 years and are in effect in breach of FFP already. FFP allows our losses to be £83m (2 x £35m premier league season + 1 x £13m Championship). Next year the 3 year tally will need to be below £61m and if we don't go up, £39m the year after.

The Wyness statement again contradicts the Guardian article...how can we have lost £81m 2 seasons ago, but only show a 3 year loss of £83.3m?

Losses were as follows (for Reform Act Ltd):

2015/16 -£80.7m

2014/15: -27.3m

2013/14: -3.9m

(all from Companies House).  So the three year loss is £111.9m, technically.  BUT, for the FFP test there are items you can exclude from the losses - from memory, expenditure on youth development, and even some exceptional costs, which mostly made up the £81m most recent loss.  In reality, any test of what the actual 'loss' is would be a negotiation - I imagine we'd argue hard for things to be excluded, but no idea how easy that is to do.

From the information publicly available, I think it's virtually impossible to calculate whether or not we will breach.  The fact the club have mentioned it suggests (a) we are close but (b) that they have their eyes firmly on it.  That means it should be manageable.

I feel like this summer has been sensible from that point of view.  But, without having full view of everything, I'd expect us to hit big trouble with if we don't go up soon (perhaps an obvious statement!)

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