markavfc40 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: Terry seems to be coming in to do what our management team have not been able to do. Not at all. A manager/coaching team are obviously responsible for a lot but as soon as players step out onto the pitch it is down to them. Terry is still current and has had very recent success, has captained teams to the biggest honours in the game, has captained his country and any player in our squad, in fact in any squad, would look up to him. The guy is a born leader on the pitch. Doesn’t mean he’ll be able to do what Bruce now does and manage a football club or what Clemence and Calderwood do and coach players. Being a player who can inspire and influence other players on the pitch on a match day and do likewise in amongst players on the training pitch is though a vital ingredient in any successful club. In terms of that role then I can’t think of another player who could offer us more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 22, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Didn't we say all that when we signed all those captain's last summer. It didn't work out so well. And Terry's presence on the pitch is questionable. He played 90 minutes 4 times during an entire premier league season, how much of a gruelling 46 game season is he going to really take part in? And while his presence on the pitch might help, I'd imagine when he's not playing his wages for doing nothing will certainly not inspire and motivate the rest of our players. I think there's loads of cons surrounding this signing and a few pros which are mainly based on faith at this minute. Very good post and Villa fans would do well to consider the John Terry you may be getting now rather than the one that played regularly for Chelsea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marley the Bognor Villan Posted June 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2017 With no transfer fee, £60k p/w plus bonuses for promotion we could end up paying Terry £4M over the year. Lets be honest, who are we gonna get in for that money that will do a better job with less gamble? We could basically buy someone for £2.5M and pay them £30k p/w, Probably without his pedigree/experience. So, those that consider it a gamble not worth taking should have a think about who we could get for £4M (including salary & bonuses) that is less of a gamble and better value for money. Bare in mind that its only actually £4M IF we do get promoted as well. Its not our money, the cost of players these days is insane anyway so forget the finances. Would our squad be better with him in it or not? Of course it would! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Looked "poor" in the Premier League, for the seasons Champions. (Didn't follow so wouldn't even know if that were true) Elphick last looked shite in the Championship. The pros outweigh the cons in this situation 10fold. PREMIER LEAGUE Clubs are still trying to sign him ffs. Cue the season ending injury against Hull. Your initial point was that Elphick seemed a good signing in fans' eyes whereas people are unsure about Terry. Yet, here, you're comparing Elphick's performance after we signed him to the achievements of the club who John Terry barely played for last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Well, didn't he win the Champions League for Chelsea? Lets just make sure we don't let him take any penalties, or we might need to break these out again: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Marley the Bognor Villan said: With no transfer fee, £60k p/w plus bonuses for promotion we could end up paying Terry £4M over the year. Lets be honest, who are we gonna get in for that money that will do a better job with less gamble? We could basically buy someone for £2.5M and pay them £30k p/w, Probably without his pedigree/experience. So, those that consider it a gamble not worth taking should have a think about who we could get for £4M (including salary & bonuses) that is less of a gamble and better value for money. Bare in mind that its only actually £4M IF we do get promoted as well. Its not our money, the cost of players these days is insane anyway so forget the finances. Would our squad be better with him in it or not? Of course it would! That's if he signs a 12 month deal and doesn't want more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I think there is a world of difference between still being capable of excelling for a club not just playing in the top flight but winning/competing for the title, domestic and European cups and dropping down a level and being able to excel in the Championship. John Terry at 50% of the player he was would still be good enough for this level. It is not just what he brings to the table performance wise though it is what his influence can bring out in others already here. I think ability wise our squad is already as good as any in this division. What we lack more than anything is a backbone, a winners mentality, a never say die attitude and a desire to give 100% from the first second to the last one. Terry just by his very presence on the pitch and training ground can instil that in others. I agree with all of this post... ...but the bit in bold. That would be fine if John Terry was still "competent" for Chelsea last season. I'm not talking about a player here who cannot excel anymore, it seems that he has gone downhill. As a brief (I haven't searched in much detail here) example, there's an article which states: "John Terry made his 716th Chelsea appearance on Monday evening as the Premier League champions welcomed Watford to Stamford Bridge. And the legendary centre-back capped his return to the starting XI by opening the scoring for the Blues. However, that was as good as his night got. Just seconds after scoring it was Terry's mistake which led to Etienne Capoue's equaliser, and all night long the 36-year-old defender was shaky at the back. The Blues conceded three times, and needed a late Cesc Fabregas goal to secure a 4-3 win. Terry will leave Chelsea this summer after 22 years of service, and this kind of performance proved it is time for the once world class defender to leave Stamford Bridge. And fans are starting to understand that too." (Link: http://talksport.com/football/chelsea-fc-news-john-terry-scores-fans-start-understand-why-past-it-legend-leaving) I'm not saying he'll necessarily be a bad signing, and I completely agree with the leadership pros/example he sets as well - after all, he's competed at the very top for a long time now. But let's not get too carried away by the fact he's a huge name and expect him to be the best defender in the league in terms of performances. There's a reason he'd be dropping down to the Championship. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marley the Bognor Villan Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: That's if he signs a 12 month deal and doesn't want more. Regardless of how long his deal is, that is the cost of having him for this (promotion chasing) season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marley the Bognor Villan said: Regardless of how long his deal is, that is the cost of having him for this (promotion chasing) season Brilliant So if signs a 4 year deal we just ignore 3 of them years. Wish we did that with Shay given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marley the Bognor Villan Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Brilliant So if signs a 4 year deal we just ignore 3 of them years. Wish we did that with Shay given. He is only reportedly signing a one or two year deal (depending on which source we choose to speculate on). The point I was trying to make is that it will be £4M ONLY if we get promoted. In which case, it wouldnt be another £4M next season as we cant get promoted twice. If you can find someone better to help us get promoted for £4M then great, I'm all for it but personally I feel JT would be less of a gamble than someone without his experience or someone from abroad that would need time to settle, get used to the english game, etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 10 hours ago, abdomlahor said: i think the way he left has clouded people's judgement on him as a player. not really Delph was a bang average player and his record for Villa was actually not that good. It helped his reputation he played with players like Westwood and Bacuna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 36 minutes ago, Marley the Bognor Villan said: With no transfer fee, £60k p/w plus bonuses for promotion we could end up paying Terry £4M over the year. Lets be honest, who are we gonna get in for that money that will do a better job with less gamble? We could basically buy someone for £2.5M and pay them £30k p/w, Probably without his pedigree/experience. So, those that consider it a gamble not worth taking should have a think about who we could get for £4M (including salary & bonuses) that is less of a gamble and better value for money. Bare in mind that its only actually £4M IF we do get promoted as well. Its not our money, the cost of players these days is insane anyway so forget the finances. Would our squad be better with him in it or not? Of course it would! You put it like this it is a no brainer isn’t it. Even if you go slightly further and say 60k a week and a couple of mil bonus if we get promoted I am not sure where we would find a player of John Terrys ilk, both in what he can do personally performance wise and how he can bring the best out in others, for 5 mill including wages. Even over a two year deal based on 60k a week it is 6 mill. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) We desperately need to sort out the GK position, as soon as possible. DM & Wingers are also required. Most importantly, we need a more attacking style of play and more focus in that sense. I cannot see the signs of how, from where or when that is going to happen but I am keeping my fingers crossed. I really hope we don't become more and more defensively focussed... On Terry, it is more of a gamble than anything imo (can't stand him either & he's too old but I just care about the success of our club more than anything, sick to the back teeth of our miserable record of expensive mistakes) but I suppose if it attracts a better pedigree of player here than that would be a big benefit. I would personally be sickened if he ever became a prominent part of our coaching or management team... I really hope we're not going back to 3-5-2/5-3-2 (too dour and defensive). I wish we could become a more exciting, adventurous and dynamic team that could dominate games and blow some teams away...we don't seem to have anyone on our coaching team that encourages that.... Edited June 22, 2017 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I really hope this suggestion of double figure outgoings is true too (mentioned by Wyness). Getting rid of the crap would be a massive lift for all, if we could trim and improve the squad, enhance the quality, make it more tight-knit and full of drive, unity and determination, that really would be excellent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: not really Delph was a bang average player and his record for Villa was actually not that good. It helped his reputation he played with players like Westwood and Bacuna You could say the same about James Milner who had a good 12-18 month spell with us ( just like Delph) which led to his move to Citeh but previous to that he wasn't particularly great. Only difference being the circumstances of his departure. I wont rewrite history regarding Delph and airbrush out his importance during that period just because of the way he departed. Immaterial really though as we have zero chance of signing either ever again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted June 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, thabucks said: You could say the same about James Milner who had a good 12-18 month spell with us ( just like Delph) which led to his move to Citeh but previous to that he wasn't particularly great. Only difference being the circumstances of his departure. I wont rewrite history regarding Delph and airbrush out his importance during that period just because of the way he departed. Immaterial really though as we have zero chance of signing either ever again. Milner was far, far better at Villa than Delph was. Just no contest whatsoever. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Milner was far, far better at Villa than Delph was. Just no contest whatsoever. In your opinion and I disagree personally. Milner shone with better players around him than Delph had. I'd put them on a par during there peak with us. But hey that's the joy of forums we all have differing views & opinions on players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, thabucks said: You could say the same about James Milner who had a good 12-18 month spell with us ( just like Delph) which led to his move to Citeh but previous to that he wasn't particularly great. Only difference being the circumstances of his departure. I wont rewrite history regarding Delph and airbrush out his importance during that period just because of the way he departed. Immaterial really though as we have zero chance of signing either ever again. Mentioning Milner and Delph in the same sentence? That's just plain crazy talk..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I worded my responses badly and i shouldnt of implied Delph was as good as Milner. But Milner wasn't amazing during his whole spell here, but during his prime with us he was probably the better player I'll concede that. I meant to highlight that they both had a golden period with us and I won't discount Delph's just because of the way he departed. But this has nothing to do with transfer speculation so I will it there so not to derail the thread. Edited June 22, 2017 by thabucks Should really think more before I type 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I do think Milner is very overrated by Villa fans if I am honest. He was a decent player with a brilliant engine but never got the hype that he was awesome for us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts