Demitri_C Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: No. Thanks for arguing your point so constructively! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I don't think it's something you can do anything about. I mean what could be done to stop what happened yesterday, short of either banning cars or banning people being out in public? Try and change the ideology and their way of thinking? It will take centuries of course and even then you could never stamp out radical Islam fully because it's always been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Thanks for arguing your point so constructively! It's called being succinct, Dem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Radical Islam is being taught here and is also being imported from other countries. Their way of thinking already has a foothold in this country. Our foreign policy has not helped but I'm not entirely convinced it's just down to us dropping bombs and invading countries although it's a massive propaganda tool. One world and one religion which is Islam, that's the goal. Most of us know that won't happen mind but they are going to kill and terrorise a lot more people trying. The west has a soft underbelly that lets this disease fester and still you cannot carry a bible in Saudi Arabia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted March 23, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 28 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: What do you suggest the country does then trent? It will be difficult of course but if this gives us a 1% chance of making the country safer and saving lives surely it's worth investing our taxes on? The country is safe. Let's just set that straight from the off, our Police and security services do a remarkable job in keeping the general public safe. If you look back through this thread you will see that I've consistently posted to that effect. I've posted statistics about the number of terrorism related arrests on a few occasions when this has been questioned. However, there will be times when attacks take place. Some will try and claim they are due to Police or security service failings, as Channel 4 news was starting to do last night, but some will be unavoidable. Sadly we as a nation have to accept that, just as we did in the 80's with Irish terrorism. I'm completely against the cuts in Policing, just as I'm against cuts in schools, the NHS, the ambulance service and the Fire Brigade. But I see that as an entirely separate issue to the one of self starter, domestic terrorism assuming that is what last night was. I just don't see the logic in saying more Police on the streets would deter attacks where someone uses a car and a knife out of their kitchen to attack people. You can't protect everyone, everywhere at all times on every street from a nut job in a car mounting a pavement and driving into people. As for what do I suggest we do. Well if I had the answer to international and domestic terrorism I would be providing it to people other than the good folk of VT off topic! However it's fairly clear that there is no answer or solution but many different things that need to be done, probably over many years. We need to look at our foreign policy, we need to look at how we engage with and in the Middle East. We need invest (as we are doing) in our security services, we need to make those services more diverse and reflective of the society they protect and like wise the Police, we need to work on better social integration of communities. We need to ask serious questions about how people are being converted and radicalised. We need to find ways of encouraging greater cooperation with the communities these terrorists reside/hide within. We need to stop demonising Islam based on the actions of a tiny fraction of their faith. We need the Islamic faith to accept and engage with the issue within their faith and communities in a far greater way. We need to look very closely at our prisons and the radicalisation happening within them. We need to stop cutting prison staff. The list goes on and on I'm afraid Dem and the truth is it's going to take decades. Just as it took decades to bring an end to IRA attacks in England. I've said several times in this thread that the sad reality was likely to be more of these attacks on our soil rather than less as ISIS is degraded in the ME. I'm afraid flooding the streets with Police won't stop that. It might give people a sense of security and peace of mind, it certainly will today in London where there will be a huge Police presence, but you can't stop what happened yesterday with Police on the streets. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: still you cannot carry a bible in Saudi Arabia Is that particularly important to you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 don't come here with your common sense and calmness @TrentVilla now is the time to piss our little pants about islam and ask to pay for more rights and freedoms to be taken away to help protect our rights and freedoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: You can't protect everyone, everywhere at all times on every street from a nut job in a car mounting a pavement and driving into people. Getting people to understand this is a suggestion for 'what the country does then' or at least where it could begin. Edited March 23, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: The country is safe. Let's just set that straight from the off, our Police and security services do a remarkable job in keeping the general public safe. If you look back through this thread you will see that I've consistently posted to that effect. I've posted statistics about the number of terrorism related arrests on a few occasions when this has been questioned. However, there will be times when attacks take place. Some will try and claim they are due to Police or security service failings, as Channel 4 news was starting to do last night, but some will be unavoidable. Sadly we as a nation have to accept that, just as we did in the 80's with Irish terrorism. I'm completely against the cuts in Policing, just as I'm against cuts in schools, the NHS, the ambulance service and the Fire Brigade. But I see that as an entirely separate issue to the one of self starter, domestic terrorism assuming that is what last night was. I just don't see the logic in saying more Police on the streets would deter attacks where someone uses a car and a knife out of their kitchen to attack people. You can't protect everyone, everywhere at all times on every street from a nut job in a car mounting a pavement and driving into people. As for what do I suggest we do. Well if I had the answer to international and domestic terrorism I would be providing it to people other than the good folk of VT off topic! However it's fairly clear that there is no answer or solution but many different things that need to be done, probably over many years. We need to look at our foreign policy, we need to look at how we engage with and in the Middle East. We need invest (as we are doing) in our security services, we need to make those services more diverse and reflective of the society they protect and like wise the Police, we need to work on better social integration of communities. We need to ask serious questions about how people are being converted and radicalised. We need to find ways of encouraging greater cooperation with the communities these terrorists reside/hide within. We need to stop demonising Islam based on the actions of a tiny fraction of their faith. We need the Islamic faith to accept and engage with the issue within their faith and communities in a far greater way. We need to look very closely at our prisons and the radicalisation happening within them. We need to stop cutting prison staff. The list goes on and on I'm afraid Dem and the truth is it's going to take decades. Just as it took decades to bring an end to IRA attacks in England. I've said several times in this thread that the sad reality was likely to be more of these attacks on our soil rather than less as ISIS is degraded in the ME. I'm afraid flooding the streets with Police won't stop that. It might give people a sense of security and peace of mind, it certainly will today in London where there will be a huge Police presence, but you can't stop what happened yesterday with Police on the streets. Fair points Trent good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted March 23, 2017 Administrator Share Posted March 23, 2017 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I was working in London today, Threadneedle Street. I'd just like to point out the obvious. During and after the event and the commuter hour tube trip to Paddington, the whole world of London's mixed bag of everyday arseholes just got on with their lives. They knew about it, those that spoke expressed sympathy for the victims. Then it was 'see you tomorrow' and get on a crowded tube. London can take it. I was in London a couple of weeks ago. They closed the whole of Victoria station during evening rush hour. Everyone at the meeting just stayed for a drink at the bar. No panic. No speculation about what might be happening. I heard the next day it was for a suspected stabbing (I'm on a train so I'm not going to fact check what it was). It's true that things like this happen. It's likely that the media would have turned it into a major story if they could link it to terrorism. The reality is what the mayor actually said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted March 23, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Radical Islam is being taught here and is also being imported from other countries. Their way of thinking already has a foothold in this country. Our foreign policy has not helped but I'm not entirely convinced it's just down to us dropping bombs and invading countries although it's a massive propaganda tool. One world and one religion which is Islam, that's the goal. Most of us know that won't happen mind but they are going to kill and terrorise a lot more people trying. The west has a soft underbelly that lets this disease fester and still you cannot carry a bible in Saudi Arabia No but then we don't use capital punishment and remove people's heads in public as a display of control. Although Katie Hopkins makes it tempting at times.... We are fortunate to live in a free, democratic and liberal society. We have to embrace that and be grateful for it. We also need to protect it in the face of creeping state surveillance of everyone (except MP's) although I differ from some on where I draw that particular boundary. Yes we need to tackle extremism and those who preach hate (irrespective of their colour or religion) and take advantage of the freedoms most of us take for granted. Your post implies that it is the Saudi's that have things right not us and that very clearly isn't the case. Perhaps you didn't mean that and you were just pointing out the imbalance of tolerance between the two countries, in which case I agree only I think that's a positive about Britain not a negative. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Was the policeman wearing a protective vest ? If he was would that suggest that he was a trained killer rather than just a lone wolf. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, hippo said: Was the policeman wearing a protective vest ? If he was would that suggest that he was a trained killer rather than just a lone wolf. ? I don't mean to sound flippant (so apologies If I do) but I'm about as leathal as Rudy Gestede but it would take me about two seconds to see if an officer was wearing a vest and then go for non protected areas. Those vests are great but only to a point. (Er if you pardon the phrase) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: I don't mean to sound flippant (so apologies If I do) but I'm about as leathal as Rudy Gestede but it wouldn't take me about two seconds to see if an officer was wearing a vest and then go for non protected areas. Those vests are great but only to a point. (Er if you pardon the phrase) I don't know. I thought they were designed to stop that kind of thing - or at least make it very difficult. When you say non protected areas - I take it to mean the neck - and other arteries. Im no expert but I would have thought a stab vest would protect the chest and back. RIP to all those that lost there lives yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: No but then we don't use capital punishment and remove people's heads in public as a display of control. We are fortunate to live in a free, democratic and liberal society. We have to embrace that and be grateful for it. Yes we need to tackle extremism and those who preach hate (irrespective of their colour or religion) and take advantage of the freedoms most of us take for granted. Your post implies that it is the Saudi's that have things right not us and that very clearly isn't the case. Perhaps you didn't mean that and you were just pointing out the imbalance of tolerance between the two countries, in which case I agree only I think that's a positive about Britain not a negative. Saudi Arabia is another example of twisting a religion. This time for control of the populace (although I don't think religion should ever play a role in a country's laws). The place is a disgrace and it's leaders hypocritically take part in all the vices they have banned. Still, they have oil so us and America like to cosy up to them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, hippo said: Was the policeman wearing a protective vest ? If he was would that suggest that he was a trained killer rather than just a lone wolf. ? It was reported on the radio this morning that the policeman was completely unarmed and wasn't wearing any protective clothing such as a stab vest. Sounded like the cowardly bastard stabbed him in the back of the neck several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, Risso said: It was reported on the radio this morning that the policeman was completely unarmed and wasn't wearing any protective clothing such as a stab vest. Sounded like the cowardly bastard stabbed him in the back of the neck several times. Jesus wept. Horrific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Risso said: It was reported on the radio this morning that the policeman was completely unarmed and wasn't wearing any protective clothing such as a stab vest. Surprising if he wasn't, I thought they were the norm for inner London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2017 Some reports this morning that there was a coded message in reference to the attack some 24 hours before hand on 4chan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Why do they absolutely never catch these bastards alive? Surely it's as easy to shoot them in the leg? Don't give them the glory in death they crave. Make him stare at a blank wall for the rest of his life after poking his bullet holes a bit for info first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts