Germany v England/England v Lithuania

[villa4europe]

Just now, Zatman said:

Its quite unfair on Europe. Conmebol has 10 countries and 50 percent usually qualify, was 6 in last World Cup

Europe has 53 countries and less than a quarter qualify

im pretty sure the proposed shake up and additional teams isnt much fairer, due to the collapse of russia and yugoslavia UEFA have expanded unlike other regions and yet the representation hasnt

22 new members since it expanded to 24 teams in 82 and 5 new members since it expanded to 32 teams in 98

[PaulC]

6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Its quite unfair on Europe. Conmebol has 10 countries and 50 percent usually qualify, was 6 in last World Cup

Europe has 53 countries and less than a quarter qualify

Yes but with all the new countries and there being many without a chance of qualifying or doing anything in the world cup that's a bit misleading. Am I right in thinking theres 6 countries from Europe who have won the world cup and 3 from South America and those three have won it more than once

[sharkyvilla]

Lithuania seemed to have no ability whatsoever.  It wasn't even remotely a contest, once we got one goal that was it, might as well rest up for next week's PL games.  There aren't many goals in this England squad really, when they're playing for their clubs they've got the foreign players to do the cutting edge stuff.

[PaulC]

Defoe coming back shows the lack of strikers we have available or maybe Southgate thinks he can do a job short-term., I thought Southgate was progressive in his substitutions but it was a such a non-contest played at a slow pace that it was hard watching.

With regard to qualifications maybe there should be a b category qualifiying tournament  to get it down to 28 countries. Then 7 groups of 4 should with the top 2 qualifying automatically and the best third place one getting the other spot. You would have more competive groups that way but that would mean more matches for the smaller nations.

[VillaChris]

World Cup is a bit more interesting than the euro qualifiers at least given just the group winners go through.

Could be some sudden death play offs with Italy, Portugal, Sweden, ROI, Iceland and possibly Belgium all candidates for 2nd place in the groups.

[PaulC]

Quite true, other groups are tougher. Belgium will win their group I think .Poor last game but no Hazard or De Bruyne either. Too much talent  really, they should be thinking of winning the world cup. Wales are really going to struggle to qualify now after such a brilliant euros.

Edited March 27, 2017 by PaulC

[rodders0223]

Could have played Westwood, Gabby, Joe Bennett, Micah, Gardner, Lescott, Sinclair and Richardson and still won that. Maybe that is the solution to our biggest problem..."BURNOUT"

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Quite true, other groups are tougher. Belgium will win their group I think .Poor last game but no Hazard or De Bruyne either. Too much talent  really, they should be thinking of winning the world cup. Wales are really going to struggle to qualify now after such a brilliant euros.

Belgium have to go to Bosnia and Greece so not a shoe in yet.

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Belgium have to go to Bosnia and Greece so not a shoe in yet.

And they have Roberto Martinez as their manager, so definitely not a shoe-in.  A mate of mine remembered in time the other night that he was their manager and luckily managed to cash out his accumulator.

[PaulC]

3 hours ago, BOF said:

And they have Roberto Martinez as their manager, so definitely not a shoe-in.  A mate of mine remembered in time the other night that he was their manager and luckily managed to cash out his accumulator.

Well I would have been more concerned about there being no Hazard and De Bruyne than Martinez really. With the exception of the Greece match results under Martinez have been excellent 100% from 4 games in the group and 21 goals.  They shouldn't be concerned about going to Greece and Bosnia! think they will walk the group. they beat Bosnia 4-0 at home and they still have to play Cyprus and Gilbralta at home.

Edited March 27, 2017 by PaulC

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

Could have played Westwood, Gabby, Joe Bennett, Micah, Gardner, Lescott, Sinclair and Richardson and still won that. Maybe that is the solution to our biggest problem..."BURNOUT"

I dont know. I have seen them players line up against lower league opposition and make Gary Jones, James Hanson and Zavon Hines look like Xavi, Messi and Ronaldo

[Zatman]

On 3/26/2017 at 19:23, Demitri_C said:

Probably why we are so crap in the tournaments, we play such shit teams that when we play someone half decent they lose. Although Iceland was utter humiliation. They disgraced the nation. 

I am getting a bit sick of this. minus the prima donnas Iceland are probably a better team than England. In tougher groups since September 2013 have lost 5 competitive games, twice in Croatia, in France, in Czech Republic and a dead rubber in Turkey. places I wouldnt expect current England team to fare any better

[villa4europe]

dunno, england have a weird tournament mentality that i dont think anyone can really put their finger on, the players just dont turn up, the 4 perfromances infrnace last summer were nothing like anything we'd seen in the 2 year build up, in a qualifier or a friendly id fancy england vs just about anyone

[Demitri_C]

11 hours ago, Zatman said:

I am getting a bit sick of this. minus the prima donnas Iceland are probably a better team than England. In tougher groups since September 2013 have lost 5 competitive games, twice in Croatia, in France, in Czech Republic and a dead rubber in Turkey. places I wouldnt expect current England team to fare any better

You think Iceland are better than England? You can't be for real? 

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You think Iceland are better than England? You can't be for real? 

Zatman hates England.

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, villa4europe said:

dunno, england have a weird tournament mentality that i dont think anyone can really put their finger on, the players just dont turn up, the 4 perfromances infrnace last summer were nothing like anything we'd seen in the 2 year build up, in a qualifier or a friendly id fancy england vs just about anyone

It's what makes following England so dull. 

We're actually very good at qualifying (most of the time) which means there's no excitement in that process. We know we're going to get there so there's not really any joy in it.

Then when we get to a tournament you're right, we just go to pieces, managers bottle it and we have basically no hope (recently I mean).

What's fun about any of that?

 

Being half Irish I get much more enjoyment out of their qualifiers because qualifying is a big deal, and not easy at all. They'll probably get battered if they get to the tournament but at least it's exciting. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

England have invariably ad very easy qualifying groups since the 2002 world cup qualifying campaign - 2008 being the exception although that group really wasn't that hard.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss

[Stevo985]

39 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

England have invariably ad very easy qualifying groups since the 2002 world cup qualifying campaign - 2008 being the exception although that group really wasn't that hard.

Which again makes it even more boring.

I'd almost like a qualifying group with teams like Spain and Germany in it. At least that would make the process interesting.

[kurtsimonw]

2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

England have invariably ad very easy qualifying groups since the 2002 world cup qualifying campaign - 2008 being the exception although that group really wasn't that hard.

I don't know. Most seeded teams have "easy" qualifying simply because how the pots are done. We pissed it the other year with Ukraine and Croatia. But because we made them look awful, they get labelled crap and easy games. We got no credit for really walking through the games that were easy on paper IMO. 

[BOF]

15 hours ago, villa4europe said:

dunno, england have a weird tournament mentality that i dont think anyone can really put their finger on, the players just dont turn up, the 4 perfromances infrnace last summer were nothing like anything we'd seen in the 2 year build up, in a qualifier or a friendly id fancy england vs just about anyone

I'll put my finger on it.  They have no tournament experience from the youth setup.  They get fast-tracked to the senior side as soon as they're proven to be not completely shit.  Look at Rashford as the latest example.  All the top international sides, and we may as well also throw in the current Iceland side as an outlying example too, seeing as they've come up in conversation now, they all let their players gain knockout experience in all of the lower levels.  So that by the time the player is part of the senior setup, turning up at a meaningful knockout tournament isn't a learning experience.  It's not a shock to the system or to their confidence.  They've done it before.  The mentality, the psychology.  They've had the dress-rehearsals.  The level may be higher, but they know what's expected of them from the moment they arrive.  England don't do that.  I think they were beginning to try and do it recently with Southgate in charge of the U21s.  There was controversy when some of the younger senior players were brought back down to the U21 setup to go to the U21 championship finals.  No they didn't do very well, but the approach was the right one and it was a step in the right direction.  Predictably, there was mocking and uproar in the press and from the public about wasting these players' time having a kickabout in what they perceived to be a meaningless tournament rather than giving them a rest.  The culture is wrong.  There's a lack of respect in many aspects.  Be it to the underage competitions.  Be it to perceived lesser international rivals on the bigger stage.  I don't know how you fix it, because there seems a lack of awareness of what they currently are and what they currently lack, and until they can see and admit to that, then they'll change nothing.