Villarocker Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 30 minutes ago, TRO said: I get that.....and yes you are right. but we are trying to debate where the problem lies. look, the manager always has to take responsibility......but don't just think change automatically brings in a better manager, they could be worse......thats the gamble sadly.....and thats the dilemma the hierarchy have. No one is more ****** off than me, with the latest offerings. We can all aim our frustrations in directions to give vent to our feelings.....for what? You can blame who you like, but this team over the last 3 games are not good enough to get out of this league. 1 point out of those 3 games is relegation form......The performances are even more convincing of that. just an example.... The panel were talking about Sam Allardyce and Everton....they was asked was Sams instructions wrong or was the players interpretations wrong.....Rio Ferdinand said " you will have to ask them, only they will know" The same applies to us, you can Blame Bruce but only they know, whats wrong.....hopefully. Judging after QPR and Bolton......they don't. Straight up question mate, if we don't go up do you want Bruce kept on for next season or do you want him gone and a new manager in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAVFC Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Pathetic performance, pathetic tactics, pathetic manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, Eastie said: One off games can be won by anything including strokes of Luck , bad refereeing decisions etc - of course we need to be at our best to give ourselves every chance . believe me the target of xia, wyness and Bruce was automatic promotion this season - we were joint favourites for promotion in August - the manager had the same time warnick had at Cardiff and in my view it is failure not to finish in the top 2 with this squad . Bruce himself said he’s well aware of the consequences if he doesn’t win promotion . Reaching the play offs with the squad we have is failure by Bruce - everything was geared for auotomatic promotion and the likes of JT snodgrass were here to achieve that aim . On the play offs anything can happen and 3rd place teams often miss out on promotion - it’s all about what happens on the day and on our day we can beat anyone or lose to anyone . This is true. But the play offs are 3 games if you get to the final and therefore not a one game. There is no lottery about winning 3, 90 minute football matches. Football is always about what happens on the day so, by that token the whole season, is a lottery because it just depends what happens on each game day. Anyway, back on topic, I would be seriously concerned about playing anyone other than Derby atm as we seem to have run out of steam. A two legged tie against Fulham or Cardiff would be horrible and Millwall not much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 40 minutes ago, Eastie said: I get that Tro but the buck stops with the manager ultimately - he lies responsible for team selection , tactics and coaching and if the players he picks fail to do the job then he has a large squad to choose from to change things - too often we have had bad spells under Bruce and his comment about giving our heads a wobble doesn’t v]cut the mustard with me . He was brought in and is highly paid to deliver promotion - it is his job to sort it out and too often we look a total shambles . ‘I like him as a man but I feel he is being outwitted tactically by other managers far too easily . The last line is just not commensurate with my thoughts I accept that you do......but I simply cannot accept that. did he have a day off and totally outwit Nuno?....No Sorry, its just not the way I see it.....There is clearly a problem and I have my thoughts, but to be fair they are just stabs at it and that is not helpful, to the problem and the future of my club. judging by SB's face....He didn't look like a man who thought everything is going to plan. In the last three games, it wouldn't matter who you brought on as subs it wasn't going to change things.....He has to take responsibility for that......but if so many have lost form at the same time, its hardly his fault, but he had to take responsibility for it, there is a difference. I have no problem seeing him sacked......I have a problem seeing it get better. bizarrely as it seems tonight, he may still be the best placed person to see where the improvement can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, villarocker said: Straight up question mate, if we don't go up do you want Bruce kept on for next season or do you want him gone and a new manager in? Its a good Question on a bad night. My heart says one thing, my head Another. I will go with my head to further the debate.....Keep him. I am not going to make fervent statements if I am unsure and i make no bones, its not clear. what is clear to me, we have made improvement, I am not of the opinion, that we can just pick and choose what season we can return.....should have been last season, should be this, who says? I think we have some good players, but I am unsure they have all the qualities, to get out of this division. They lack consistency On their day they can beat anyone On their off day, they can lose to anyone I see a team that lacks fight at times I see a team that gets taken out easily with physical encounter/ endeavour. I see a team weak in the air. It takes special qualities to get out of this league.....We do not possess enough of them Imo....we have some decent footballers, but not enough who can dominate their positions. Many managers have different idea's of how to get results, but they need the players to do it....Warnock has his way, Nuno has his, Jokanovic has his. I think we should have got a dominate central midfielder who can play, I think we should have got an experienced Target man like Glen Murray, Mitrovic or Gary Madine.....We have weak links that have been exposed. I think Gary Rowett is a decent manager, but hís face the other night looked puzzled, thats what happens when players let you down.....when too many let you down, panic sets in. Ps We don"t know hòw much Bruces personal life has affected his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, TRO said: The last line is just not commensurate with my thoughts I accept that you do......but I simply cannot accept that. did he have a day off and totally outwit Nuno?....No Sorry, its just not the way I see it.....There is clearly a problem and I have my thoughts, but to be fair they are just stabs at it and that is not helpful, to the problem and the future of my club. judging by SB's face....He didn't look like a man who thought everything is going to plan. In the last three games, it wouldn't matter who you brought on as subs it wasn't going to change things.....He has to take responsibility for that......but if so many have lost form at the same time, its hardly his fault, but he had to take responsibility for it, there is a difference. I have no problem seeing him sacked......I have a problem seeing it get better. bizarrely as it seems tonight, he may still be the best placed person to see where the improvement can be made. I think Bruce will be gone Tro after this season - the comments from wyness at the supporters trust agm which I posted earlier were hardly a vote of confidence - indeed he even refused to say if Bruce would stay should we be promoted , I think Bruce will be gone without doubt should we not be promoted - I also think whoever comes kin will be looking at a longer term promotion plan with a few of the younger lads getting their chances . If we don’t go up In the play offs then I fear we may be in this league for quite a bit longer whoever is manager due to the financial restrictions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 43 minutes ago, One For The Road said: This is true. But the play offs are 3 games if you get to the final and therefore not a one game. There is no lottery about winning 3, 90 minute football matches. Football is always about what happens on the day so, by that token the whole season, is a lottery because it just depends what happens on each game day. Anyway, back on topic, I would be seriously concerned about playing anyone other than Derby atm as we seem to have run out of steam. A two legged tie against Fulham or Cardiff would be horrible and Millwall not much better. If Cardiff miss out now I think it would have a devastating effect on them - I think Millwall would be very hard over 2 legs and Fulham very hard full stop . not too worried about boro or derby although by a months time form could be very different - nobody would be easy and I’d take a dive or a dodgy referees decision ion the final if it meant success - failure in the play offs could put this club back years . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Eastie said: I think Bruce will be gone Tro after this season - the comments from wyness at the supporters trust agm which I posted earlier were hardly a vote of confidence - indeed he even refused to say if Bruce would stay should we be promoted , I think Bruce will be gone without doubt should we not be promoted - I also think whoever comes kin will be looking at a longer term promotion plan with a few of the younger lads getting their chances . If we don’t go up In the play offs then I fear we may be in this league for quite a bit longer whoever is manager due to the financial restrictions You could be right, that could easily happen. I will just sit back and hope it is all for the best and the best for AVFC. maybe its in their thoughts now, its all maybe's isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Eastie said: If Cardiff miss out now I think it would have a devastating effect on them - I think Millwall would be very hard over 2 legs and Fulham very hard full stop . not too worried about boro or derby although by a months time form could be very different - nobody would be easy and I’d take a dive or a dodgy referees decision ion the final if it meant success - failure in the play offs could put this club back years . We need to find some form from somwhere.....quick. else there won't be anything. Millwall are picking up wins like Cardiff and Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, TRO said: You could be right, that could easily happen. I will just sit back and hope it is all for the best and the best for AVFC. maybe its in their thoughts now, its all maybe's isn't it. I’m sure they have covered all bases and time will tell. ‘It may well be Bruce may not want to continue under the restrictions in any case if it comes to that. ‘For now all we can do is hope it all comes good in the play offs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, TRO said: We need to find some form from somwhere.....quick. else there won't be anything. Millwall are picking up wins like Cardiff and Fulham. I think we need 2 more wins to be sure of a play off spot . ‘Could well be Cardiff clinch promotion at villa park a week on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, jim said: Why are we talking about the playoff final? We aren’t there yet, let’s try and get through the semi finals first! Let's finish top 6 first!! looking unlikely on current form. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Eastie said: I’d disagree with the top 2 being unlikely at the start of the season - I think automatics were rightly the aim and looking at the squad we have to get a top 2 place was much the target and rightly so - anything less is failure . Depends what is meant by it......SHOULD it have been unlikely ? No. But was it reasonable to think top 2 was beyond us ? Yes as soon as one saw our pre season games and the first two away games...which revealed the awful truth that we were poorly coached. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Villa Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I think the realisation that automatic wasn't likely / isn't happening has hit a few members of the team and hence form has dipped and arses fallen out. Bruce signed experience but since we walloped Wolves it's as though we peaked too early and are now clutching at straws, such as trying to get Kodja fit or praying for the Scottish Cafu to score a worldy to win in a play-off final. We have the ability, we could still do this but no more 4 striker panic subs please and will Steve Agnew please get back to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, TRO said: Even you have to admit, improvement has been made from the start of the season, with little money on transfers made....there has been some iffy buys for sure.....but the burning question is do we throw the baby out with the bath water or focus on further improvement. Do we halt gradual improvement that maybe too slow, for some of us, in favour of a faster paced version, but a gamble of going backwards too. as they say a "Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" I’m not convinced improvement HAS been made, not only since the start of the season but since he arrived. I THOUGHT there had been an actual, real, discernible improvement noticeable since new Year. In the main, that we had a strength of character previously absent, and, crucially, that we had adopted a more positive attacking approach which appeared to be the product of - at last - some decent coaching. The nagging doubt ( voiced by many but not myself, I was pretty confident) was that nothing HAD changed, and that we simply had individuals doing well...and had a bit of joy with some of the opposition.......which had been the story on our previous good runs. But really, Fulham, Preston, QPR, Bolton, and Hull have not only got results against us, each of them - most of whom have also had turmoil of sorts, and “ rebuilding”, - has done so playing ( to a greater or lesser extent ) what looks like a better quality, more repeatable, better drilled, more cohesive brand of football. We have increasingly looked like a dogs dinner, with considerable echoes of our dreadful run from early 2017. I have gone from wanting him gone in September and again in December to having thought the upheaval of removing Bruce ( given the good signs in that good run) when so far down the road with players which are all his choices would be counterproductive. But I have to say, those with the decision to make have to ask themselves, do they really believe another summer will alter the deficiencies that are all too clear ? Because the question is, which would be worse, a new Manager struggling by October, or Bruce still getting performances like this come October ? In which scenario do they look more foolish ...... for me there ARE still pros and cons but I have to say, IF they keep Bruce and things remain the same it will look like “ well what did you expect “. Not easy, not easy at all. Todays resorting to hoofing was embarrassing, the use of a DM pointless, the slowness in recognising Grabban needed help infuriating, the lack of aggression costly and the lack of cohesion alarming. All those are to do with the Manager, and are not unusual or uncommon failings. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Darth Villa said: I think the realisation that automatic wasn't likely / isn't happening has hit a few members of the team and hence form has dipped and arses fallen out. Bruce signed experience but since we walloped Wolves it's as though we peaked too early and are now clutching at straws, such as trying to get Kodja fit or praying for the Scottish Cafu to score a worldy to win in a play-off final. We have the ability, we could still do this but no more 4 striker panic subs please and will Steve Agnew please get back to work! So what hit them a couple of games ago when it was within reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted April 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2018 im seeing a lot os posys saying we dont have the squad to change how we play - sorry but this simply isnt the case in my eyes. what i see we lack most is tenacity. our u23 team has this in spades. weve used what 15 or 16 different players in the starting 11 of the last 3 games? so many players out of form that could be rotated out to inject a bit of life into the team. i dont think its that we dont have the players i think the coaching staff dont have the foresight or the balls to introduce the youngsters at the expense of experienced pros. maybe the young lads arent technìcally gifted enough to play every week, but they certainly can bring energy and creativity to a side that at the moment is devoid of ideas. its time to start taking the out of form players out of the side and give the kids a run. even if it fails it cant get much worse than 1 point in 3 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Unacceptable results since Wolves. Major choke job coughing up 2nd place the way we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 10 hours ago, TRO said: Bang on the money. Says the person who said Bruce would get us promoted............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 9 hours ago, TRO said: The last line is just not commensurate with my thoughts I accept that you do......but I simply cannot accept that. did he have a day off and totally outwit Nuno?....No Sorry, its just not the way I see it.....There is clearly a problem and I have my thoughts, but to be fair they are just stabs at it and that is not helpful, to the problem and the future of my club. judging by SB's face....He didn't look like a man who thought everything is going to plan. In the last three games, it wouldn't matter who you brought on as subs it wasn't going to change things.....He has to take responsibility for that......but if so many have lost form at the same time, its hardly his fault, but he had to take responsibility for it, there is a difference. I have no problem seeing him sacked......I have a problem seeing it get better. bizarrely as it seems tonight, he may still be the best placed person to see where the improvement can be made. Sorry but I have to disagree with the subs part. If you are struggling to get a grip on the game you do not take off a midfielder for a striker....he could have done a lot better in the last 2 games on that front. If he outwitted Nuno then he certainly didn't outwit the opposition in the last 3 did he. I said after the Wolves game I was wrong about him because I had seen a proper team performance but the last 3 games just show that it was the exception to the rule. How many really good performances have we seen this season? probably 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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