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17/18 Promotion Charge


dont_do_it_doug.

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21 minutes ago, Eastie said:

8 point  cushion with 7 to play - I think we need 2 wins to be sure of a top 4 spot .

You say that, but we just went on arguably our easiest run of fixtures all season and managed 1 point.

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Just now, Czechlad said:

You say that, but we just went on arguably our easiest run of fixtures all season and managed 1 point.

What’s done is done - we must try and look ahead and get back on track - the next 2 months are  huge for this club 

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Why are we talking about the playoff final? 

We aren’t there yet, let’s try and get through the semi finals first!

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This is the first time this season that I feel uneasy about our chances. 

My concern is automatic promotion is as good as dead with 7 games to go and a potential 12 point deficit on Cardiff if they win tomorrow, but then I look at the mini-league forming for the playoffs and I don't see us coming out of that.

I always try to stay as optimistic as possible, but our form right now isn't of a team that will get out of this league. Yes we had a great winning streak yet since then we've been beyond average. 

Who knows what will happen, but right now we've made this whole promotion thing way harder than it should have been. 

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26 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I’d disagree with the top 2 being unlikely at the start of the season - I think automatics were rightly the aim and looking at the squad we have  to get a top 2 place was much the target and rightly so - anything less is failure .

Well I thought they were unlikely and it turns out I had good reason to think so. 

I just felt it would take more than 2 seasons of rebuilding to get the components together to make us one of the best 2 teams in the league. Seems I was right.

We have a chance in the play offs and we need to take it.

Edited by One For The Road
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5 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

Well I thought they were unlikely and it turns out I had good reason to think so. 

I just felt it would take more than 2 seasons of rebuilding to get the components together to make us one of the best 2 teams in the league. Seems I was right.

We have a chance in the play offs and we need to take it.

Having got into 2nd place we were in the box seat - since then we have taken 11 points from 24 while Cardiff have taken 24 from 24 - we got ourselves into position and then blew it . 

Warnock rebuilt Cardiff on far less money and in the same time that Bruce has had at Villa - our squad should have been able to achieve far more than Cardiff’s . 

Edited by Eastie
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5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Having got into 2nd place we were in the box seat - since then we have taken 11 points from 24 while Cardiff have taken 24 from 24 - we got ourselves into position and then blew it . 

Warnock rebuilt Cardiff on far less money and in the same time that Bruce has had at Villa - our squad should have been able to achieve far more than Cardiff’s . 

The question wasn't whether or not it was unlikely that we would be in 2nd place at some point. I'd have said that was possible. The question was whether we would finish in the top two after 46 games and I thought that was unlikely at the start of the season.

The fact that we may finish more than 10 points behind 2nd kind of proves my point. I didn't think our squad was good enough. 

I also don't believe this nonsense people spout about the play offs being a lottery. It absolutely isn't a lottery, it comes down to form and determination. Nobody flukes going up and we need to get our shit together ASAP or else we won't have a chance in hell of getting to Wembley.

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17 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

The question wasn't whether or not it was unlikely that we would be in 2nd place at some point. I'd have said that was possible. The question was whether we would finish in the top two after 46 games and I thought that was unlikely at the start of the season.

The fact that we may finish more than 10 points behind 2nd kind of proves my point. I didn't think our squad was good enough. 

I also don't believe this nonsense people spout about the play offs being a lottery. It absolutely isn't a lottery, it comes down to form and determination. Nobody flukes going up and we need to get our shit together ASAP or else we won't have a chance in hell of getting to Wembley.

One off games can be won by anything including strokes of Luck ,  bad refereeing decisions etc - of course we need to be at our best to give ourselves every chance .

believe me the target of xia, wyness and Bruce was automatic promotion this season - we were joint favourites for promotion in August - the manager had the same time warnick had at Cardiff and in my view it is failure not to finish in the top 2 with this squad .

Bruce himself said he’s well aware of the consequences if he doesn’t win promotion .

Reaching the play offs with the squad we have is failure by Bruce - everything was geared for auotomatic promotion and the likes of JT snodgrass were here to achieve that aim .

On the play offs anything can happen and 3rd place teams often miss out on promotion - it’s all about what happens on the day and on our day we can beat anyone or lose to anyone .

Edited by Eastie
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18 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

The question wasn't whether or not it was unlikely that we would be in 2nd place at some point. I'd have said that was possible. The question was whether we would finish in the top two after 46 games and I thought that was unlikely at the start of the season.

The fact that we may finish more than 10 points behind 2nd kind of proves my point. I didn't think our squad was good enough. 

I also don't believe this nonsense people spout about the play offs being a lottery. It absolutely isn't a lottery, it comes down to form and determination. Nobody flukes going up and we need to get our shit together ASAP or else we won't have a chance in hell of getting to Wembley.

Bang on the money.

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10 minutes ago, TRO said:

Bang on the money.

Either way Bruce has failed - if the squad wasn’t good enough then it’s his fault and if the squad was good enough it’s still his fault as he’s Failed  to get performances from them required . 

‘I know you bang on about he needs more time etc but I’m sick of excuses for him .

 

Edited by Eastie
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I think its fair to say on this form....that reaching the play offs is the new objective.

I guess Derby fans will be saying the same.

We need to find some form from somewhere, before we completely implode.

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9 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Either way Bruce has failed - if the squad wasn’t good enough then it’s his fault and if the squad was good enough it’s still his fault as he’s Failed  to get performances from them required . 

‘I know you bang on about he needs more time etc but I’m sick of excuses for him .

 

I agree with that. The board would have most definitely targeted top 2 whether the fans thought it was likely or not. To that end, Bruce has failed and I don't expect him to be here next season.

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Just now, Eastie said:

Either way Bruce has failed - if the squad wasn’t good enough then it’s his fault and it the squad was good enough it’s still his fault as he’s Failed  to get performances from them required . 

I get that.....and yes you are right.

but we are trying to debate where the problem lies.

look, the manager always has to take responsibility......but don't just think change automatically brings in a better manager, they could be worse......thats the gamble sadly.....and thats the dilemma the hierarchy have.

No one is more ****** off than me, with the latest offerings.

We can all aim our frustrations in directions to give vent to our feelings.....for what?

You can blame who you like, but this team over the last 3 games are not good enough to get out of this league.

1 point out of those 3 games is relegation form......The performances are even more convincing of that.

just an example....

The panel were talking about Sam Allardyce and Everton....they was asked was Sams instructions wrong or was the players interpretations wrong.....Rio Ferdinand said " you will have to ask them, only they will know"

The same applies to us, you can Blame Bruce but only they know, whats wrong.....hopefully.

Judging after QPR and Bolton......they don't.

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9 minutes ago, Eastie said:

This comment from Bruce beggars belief -

“Well, we’ve got Hogan, Kodjia, Grealish, Grabban, Albert, Lansbury, all the attacking players on, but we didn’t have enough control of the game.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/we-need-give-heads-wobble-14480321

I think we could all see that.

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1 minute ago, TRO said:

I get that.....and yes you are right.

but we are trying to debate where the problem lies.

look, the manager always has to take responsibility......but don't just think change automatically brings in a better manager, they could be worse......thats the gamble sadly.....and thats the dilemma the hierarchy have.

No one is more ****** off than me, with the latest offerings.

We can all aim our frustrations in directions to give vent to our feelings.....for what?

You can blame who you like, but this team over the last 3 games are not good enough to get out of this league.

1 point out of those 3 games is relegation form......The performances are even more convincing of that.

just an example....

The panel were talking about Sam Allardyce and Everton....they was asked was Sams instructions wrong or was the players interpretations wrong.....Rio Ferdinand said " you will have to ask them, only they will know"

The same applies to us, you can Blame Bruce but only they know, whats wrong.....hopefully.

Judging after QPR and Bolton......they don't.

I get that Tro but the buck stops with the manager ultimately - he lies responsible for team selection , tactics and coaching and if the players he picks fail to do the job then he has a large squad to choose from to change things - too often we have had bad spells under Bruce and his comment about giving our heads a wobble doesn’t v]cut the mustard with me .

He was brought in and is highly paid to deliver promotion - it is his job to sort it out and too often we look a total shambles . 

‘I like him as a man but I feel he is being outwitted tactically by other managers far too easily . 

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21 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Either way Bruce has failed - if the squad wasn’t good enough then it’s his fault and if the squad was good enough it’s still his fault as he’s Failed  to get performances from them required . 

‘I know you bang on about he needs more time etc but I’m sick of excuses for him .

 

Hold on a minute.....I said that at the start of the season.

Its not a case of being sick of excuses, its a case of knowing whats gone wrong.

If in doubt, sack the manager has plenty of examples around the industry of that method not producing the most prudent of moves.

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  • You could be right by the way......but you could equally be wrong.

Tonight is not the time to make season ending decisions, just as after the Wolves game wasn't either.

Even you have to admit, improvement has been made from the start of the season, with little money on transfers made....there has been some iffy buys for sure.....but the burning question is do we throw the baby out with the bath water or focus on further improvement.

Do we halt gradual improvement that maybe too slow, for some of us, in favour of a faster paced version, but a gamble of going backwards too.

as they say a "Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"

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