briny_ear Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zatman said: He really has no excuses. With money we spent, the squad we have we should really be winning the title Unfortunately it takes a lot more than spending lots of money to win a title. I should have thought last season proved that. We spent lots of money twice over and found ourselves staring at the relegation zone by November. Edited June 27, 2017 by briny_ear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 15 hours ago, flashingqwerty said: I was asked a question so i answered it. If you dont like that, then i think forums are not for you... Yes and I asked you a question in return. But maybe the Bruce out mob are not so happy when their ideas are challenged. Suggesting people who don't agree with you should leave the forum is not very friendly is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 7 hours ago, briny_ear said: Yes and I asked you a question in return. But maybe the Bruce out mob are not so happy when their ideas are challenged. Suggesting people who don't agree with you should leave the forum is not very friendly is it? I amswered your question. And you will find it was you who told people to leave. I merely suggested that if you ask a question and complain about the answer then a forum which is designed for open debate possibly isnt the best place for you. I didnt ask you to leave at all. Whereas you explicitly did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The point that is presented here is that the people who want Bruce out are the ones causing a stink. The ones willing to have faith in him not (as it seems they are automatically right by default). The facts are simple 1- shit football 2- 30+ games with a squad more than capable, a home & away support second to none and a failed attempt at 1-6th spot. After that stating 10th as an aim which he also failed at. Those along with, tactics, not using the right players in their natural roles, hoofing, relying on backs to the wall defending and Kodjia magic. These are the reasons why some want him out. Those in favour are basing their faith on something that Bruce has not shown over a period of 30+ games relying on some sort of change/turnaround over a 46 game period aided by a reduced budget and a preseason. if being of a "Bruce out" tendency is 1 and "faith" after a preseason and a 4 promotion record is 2. By logical deduction a 2er is closer to delusional than a 1er purely by facts so far. However, VT is an open forum for people to discuss and state their opinions, be them right or wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted June 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: The point that is presented here is that the people who want Bruce out are the ones causing a stink. However, VT is an open forum for people to discuss and state their opinions, be them right or wrong. The point is that no one has bought a new opinion to the table since the season ended. The same old points are being regurgitated in every single thread and it's getting tiresome. It will once again be a very valid point to bring across once he does something wrong, anything before this has been done and dusted a hundred times. If you can't can you please stick to the actual Bruce thread. Edited June 27, 2017 by Nigel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Nigel said: The point is that no one has bought a new opinion to the table since the season ended. The same old points are being regurgitated in every single thread and it's getting tiresome. It will once again be a very valid point to bring across once he does something wrong, anything before this has been done and dusted a hundred times. If you can't can you please stick to the actual Bruce thread. point taken and politely respectfully put. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Have Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich and Fulham weakened or strengthened since last season? I think that's useful to know in the context of this thread. any idea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 16 hours ago, flashingqwerty said: I amswered your question. And you will find it was you who told people to leave. I merely suggested that if you ask a question and complain about the answer then a forum which is designed for open debate possibly isnt the best place for you. I didnt ask you to leave at all. Whereas you explicitly did. I'm picking up you don't read people's posts too carefully but if you look at mine, I think you'll find I invited you explicitly to stay. But if you and 2/3 others want to spend the entire summer writing long and repetitive posts about how Steve Bruce "failed" last season, have a think about this: is the best place to do that in a thread called "Steve Bruce" or one called "17/18 Promotion Charge"? I think this thread was an attempt to change that conversation and look forward instead of constantly harrowing over the past as you and your mates seem determined to do. So think of it not so much as a request to leave as a directional sign to get you to a place where your ramblings will be less disruptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, briny_ear said: I'm picking up you don't read people's posts too carefully but if you look at mine, I think you'll find I invited you explicitly to stay. But if you and 2/3 others want to spend the entire summer writing long and repetitive posts about how Steve Bruce "failed" last season, have a think about this: is the best place to do that in a thread called "Steve Bruce" or one called "17/18 Promotion Charge"? I think this thread was an attempt to change that conversation and look forward instead of constantly harrowing over the past as you and your mates seem determined to do. So think of it not so much as a request to leave as a directional sign to get you to a place where your ramblings will be less disruptive. But you are missing the point. There wont be a serious Promotion charge whilst Bruce is ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: But you are missing the point. There wont be a serious Promotion charge whilst Bruce is ............. So we sack Bruce today... now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 minute ago, wilko154 said: So we sack Bruce today... now what? Hire some bloke that'll get us playing actual football and see us winning the championship? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 To mount a serious promotion charge we need a manager who will take games to the opposition, ram home our superiority and have the ability to let our better players make something happen when the going gets tough. The manager-go-around started the tail end of last season when futures were been banded about of who goes where. Whilst a lot of clubs were considering what to do, we took the status quo. Now IF DrT is serious in his ambitions, has the money and will to see it through ANY manager not employed by a CL league team in Europe or a top 6 PL team good enough to push us on must surely be interested in getting our beloved Aston Villa back to the top. The ONLY thing that could discourage them not to at least listen to DrT's plans and ambitions is them bulking at the shit we've employed so far (RDM & SB) So while we continue the HDE corner shop mentality of "who'll do it for less - there's a bag of Sherbet strawberries - go get em" we are just being a club treading water waiting for a miracle. Who can honestly say that R DeBoer, Puel, Silva or anyone worth their salt WOULD NOT have taken the job? what about poaching, Hughton or Wagner? Eddie Howe? in fact ANY manager of a club that does not have the capacity to compete with L'pool, Spuds, Everton for EL/CL should be looking at the next best thing. That could be us if DrT really means what he says. But no, we're down here fir another season watching clubs like CP have Benteke & DeBoer, B'mouth buying a top GK and having Howe as boss. Where are these clubs going? nowhere. Where can we go? everywhere Unbelievable Jeff!!!! Gross miss-management from AVFC so far We are now the ManU/ManC/Chelsea of the CH expecting a Pulis/Alladyce/Pardew type in Bruce to wipe the floor with Burton Albion, Warnocks Cardiff and the like. GH getting more furious by the day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 One of the reason's we are in the situation we are currently is due to the merry go round of managers at our club and the inconsistent transfer & wage budgets assigned each season. Managers have been coming in, revamping the team with 'their' players each season with whatever funds have been at their disposal. Each time we change manager players are moved out and a bulk of players are brought in. Under Sherwood he brought in a large bulk of players (mostly poor) RDM then shifted out the majority of those players and then brought in another large bulk (again mostly poor, but with a few gems) Bruce has then been left with a team of players from two regimes and is now into his second transfer window (the most a manager has had for a while) to sort out this team and build a side around a formation and style of football. Last season he was very much working with what he had and the performances showed that. Give the bloke a chance! If we get rid of him this summer as so many of you seem to want we will be back to square one, a manager coming in shifting players that don't fit into his plans and buying in players that do. No manager can successfully do this in one transfer window when a club is in the state ours currently is. We are in the best position we have been in recent years (not league wise but club wise), we have an owner that cares about the club and is willing to invest a lot of money to bring us back to where we should be, we have an experienced manager who is willing to be in it for the long haul, and most importantly we have the fans back on side alongside a board that seem to know what they are doing again. Stop complaining and get behind the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: We are now the ManU/ManC/Chelsea of the CH expecting a Pulis/Alladyce/Pardew type in Bruce to wipe the floor with Burton Albion, Warnocks Cardiff and the like. We are not going to get a Conte or Mourinho to manage us though are we but what we want is a manager who can excel at this level just like they can at a higher level. Bruce has shown on a number of occasions that he can excel at this level. You mention what playing style we need to mount a serious promotion challenge well we have a manager who implemented a playing style four times to get a club promoted. I think it is safe to say he knows what it takes to get out of this division. I know some like to mock it but I think preseason will make a huge difference to how we set up next season. There will be minimal incomings, the half dozen players we signed in January will have had a full pre season with the rest of the players and the manager and it will allow a system to be implemented without trying to do it whilst playing two games a week. For the first time in years we will go into the new season having had a little bit of stability and I think it will make all the difference. For what it is worth I think we will come out of the traps flying and not look back. Edited June 28, 2017 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I've made clear I've reservations about Bruce - although I'm hopeful he will tweak things enough to alleviate them - but surely sacking him NOW would make no sense ? End of the season, January, or September - all have their merit, but not NOW - it'd be utter chaos, all the more so given our already shambolic recent history. At this moment in time our best Promotion chance is Brucie getting it right - whatever doubts people have I can't see that they can be so sure he wouldn't work that they'd just role the dice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Grasshopper said: But you are missing the point. There wont be a serious Promotion charge whilst Bruce is ............. Hark at mystic meg over here. Theres no point to miss there as you are using an opinion as fact. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 14 hours ago, ender4 said: Have Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich and Fulham weakened or strengthened since last season? I think that's useful to know in the context of this thread. any idea? Well hopefully they have all gone out and deliberately weakened their sides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) On 6/27/2017 at 12:42, Grasshopper said: The point that is presented here is that the people who want Bruce out are the ones causing a stink. The ones willing to have faith in him not (as it seems they are automatically right by default). The facts are simple 1- shit football 2- 30+ games with a squad more than capable, a home & away support second to none and a failed attempt at 1-6th spot. After that stating 10th as an aim which he also failed at. Those along with, tactics, not using the right players in their natural roles, hoofing, relying on backs to the wall defending and Kodjia magic. These are the reasons why some want him out. Those in favour are basing their faith on something that Bruce has not shown over a period of 30+ games relying on some sort of change/turnaround over a 46 game period aided by a reduced budget and a preseason. if being of a "Bruce out" tendency is 1 and "faith" after a preseason and a 4 promotion record is 2. By logical deduction a 2er is closer to delusional than a 1er purely by facts so far. However, VT is an open forum for people to discuss and state their opinions, be them right or wrong. Absolutely spot on.....and I have said many times on here, no one has a monopoly on the right answer. I have never disputed what you see, in your comments ,as accurate.....no dispute at all, low grade football is what we witnessed last season. Where we differ GH is where the blame lies.....I am in no doubt there either, ultimately the manager has to take responsibility and carry the can.....I think we all agree on that. However, Managers are not magicians and depending on the size of the task or how big the job is can depend on how long it takes to repair any damage. I do not believe in blind faith or that time in isolation will cure anything.....but I do believe in players needing to get to know each other, I do believe in blending a team to gel, so they understand each other, I do believe some players need to adjust to there new surroundings and I do believe a team with so many changes finds all those things that bit trickier. Despite saying the football was turgid last season I did detect the soft underbelly disappearing from our game having said that i thought we was defending using too many players, which affected the midfield and forwards......its trying to get this synchronisation right and at Present I don't think we have the right balance. To work on fixing all those things and have to play so many games in tommy gun fashion leaves very little time for specialist work..... a pre-season will help there. They can work on Getting Kodjia to look up etc,etc,etc. Fingers crossed, JT will encourage the whole team to have the confidence to come forward as a unit and that in itself will help with co-ordination and gel. No one is suggesting any of us have the answers, they are only suggestions.....Graham Taylor once said to me......We can all see the problems, the solutions are a little harder to come by....and I would listen to that man all day. WE WILL BE BACK!!! Edited June 28, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 7 hours ago, pacbuddies said: Well hopefully they have all gone out and deliberately weakened their sides! well players may have been sold, released, replaced, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The simple solution to this debate of Promotion Charge with Bruce, because preseason 4 promotions....etc and some posters views that he should have either already been a goner or that there's no confidence in him is If This football club would care to set up the playing staff, coaches and other recruitment structures in place so that we had a clear manager/player/coaches profile then we'd have "fits" coming in and "misfits" going out. So keeping a manager just to avoid forming a "profile" for all staff is pure negligence and doomed to fail. I'm looking at Southampton as a perfect model for us, and If one asks the question "Would Soton have employed RDM or Bruce? would they style their football like we do currently?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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