weedman Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 15 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Except his tactical choices are simply not working here and his record this season is shite. But this is one season. In fact, not even one season, barely half a season, I'm not saying keep the guy forever, he has a ceiling of course (PL survival maybe), but all I'm saying is shouldn't he get a season (or a year as I said earlier) to show what he can do? We as a club are extremely unsettled, loads of new players, loads of new managers, new owner, new backroom team. We finally have the nucleus of a good team, we have a good passionate owner and we have, at least on paper, one of the best managers in the league - all I'm suggesting is give a bit of time for all that to come together before another overhaul. A new manager means new backroom team, it means new players, it means a new "system", for the players that are here it means new training regime, total upheaval and, like I've already said, it's not like we've hired an unknown in this league, we've hired the Mourinho of the Championship, dull but effective - and even Mourinho is notorious for winning the league in his 2nd season, after being up and down in his first. This isn't a manager we would hire to win the Champions League, we've hired him to gain promotion from the Championship, let's give him a bit of time to achieve that, as other 'soon to be promoted' teams have before us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, weedman said: But this is one season. In fact, not even one season, barely half a season, I'm not saying keep the guy forever, he has a ceiling of course (PL survival maybe), but all I'm saying is shouldn't he get a season (or a year as I said earlier) to show what he can do? We as a club are extremely unsettled, loads of new players, loads of new managers, new owner, new backroom team. We finally have the nucleus of a good team, we have a good passionate owner and we have, at least on paper, one of the best managers in the league - all I'm suggesting is give a bit of time for all that to come together before another overhaul. A new manager means new backroom team, it means new players, it means a new "system", for the players that are here it means new training regime, total upheaval and, like I've already said, it's not like we've hired an unknown in this league, we've hired the Mourinho of the Championship, dull but effective - and even Mourinho is notorious for winning the league in his 2nd season, after being up and down in his first. This isn't a manager we would hire to win the Champions League, we've hired him to gain promotion from the Championship, let's give him a bit of time to achieve that, as other 'soon to be promoted' teams have before us This is fair enough but we are now in relegation form so he has a limited amount of time to change this. If we continue on this trajectory over the next four games then he has to go IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, dudevillaisnice said: Sadly I see it this way too. IF we were to get rid of Bruce for me we need a manager with a track record of good coaching and organisation of a team. See Hull with Silva or Clement at Swansea, Dyche at Burnley as examples of vast improvement in short amount of time due to coaching and work on the training ground. Managers that actually coach players and tactics rather than hoping it all comes together as seems to be case with our past few appointments. Huddersfield in this league maybe as one example too. One can argue Bruce is that guy but it is fast looking that isn't the case, let's hope he proves us all wrong. Last real manager we had of that ilk was probably Martin O'Neil? Even if he had some flaws himself it was evident that team was "coached". Genuine training ground work and innovation has seemingly been absent from Villa Park since Dave Sexton was coach under BFR. Brian Little's first few years were entertaining, until our start to the 97/98 season spooked him and he went uber conservative. Gregory got decent results -particularly in the first 18 months. But like many of the mangers who came afterwards, he seemed to see his role as signing big money players and throwing them altogether. With little thought about patterns of play and so forth. Our lack of movement off the ball can be traced back to this period, and it is criminal that no manager since -even if DOL and MON did get results for a period of time- has come close to rectifying it. So yes, a progressive coach who doesn't shy away from such things should -in theory- make almost an immediate impact. What also needs to be addressed is the players attitudes to each other. Currently, a goal goes in and heads drop, with no-one willing or able to rally the troops. Quite staggering, when we have captains of so many other sides all on the pitch at the same time. It seems to come down to trust. Put simply, midfielders/ forwards don't trust the goalkeeper or defence (OK, mostly Elphick) not to drop a bollock. And the goalkeeper/defence don't feel we have the firepower to get back into the game when we go a goal down. I get the impression that our squad as a whole just don't like each other very much -or if that is a bit extreme, they don't know each other, or feel the need to spend too much time with teammates outside of training or the matchday scenario. That's something Wagner apparently clocked at Huddersfield last year, and took the players away on a bonding trip in the summer. My normal instinct would be to naturally rebel against convoluted high jinx of that sort, but a number of Huddersfield players have come out and attributed their start this season to that trip. Edited February 13, 2017 by HolteExile 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I don't think Bruce is out of his depth- he just doesn't know his best 11 as we have bought yet another new team in January. If Bruce is out of his depth with 15+ years managerial experience and 4 promotions as this level, what would another promising young European manager feel like in this pit of despair? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: This is fair enough but we are now in relegation form so he has a limited amount of time to change this. If we continue on this trajectory over the next four games then he has to go IMO. Without a doubt, if it begins to look like we might actually go down then I think the doc will have no choice but to weird the axe but, as poor as we have been, I'd say the chances of us actually going down with this squad are pretty slim, it's more like last season when Chelsea were like 15th or something half way through the season and we were all laughing about them going down, or that season when Spurs were bottom after about a dozen games. Deep down we all knew they wouldn't actually go down, but I'm sure a few of their fans were panicking about it for a bit too, ever so briefly. I'm 99% certain we won't go down, and I'm sure most of us are too if we're being totally honest. We will pick up some points again soon (even the worst teams occasionally win) and that could be a catalyst but, if we actually look to have a chance of going down then I think we'll have no choice but to sack Bruce, at the moment we are still fairly comfortably clear of those places. 6 points at the bottom is a lot because the teams down there don't all win often 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: We're arguing semantics so let's agree to disagree. Have you run out of arguements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 21 hours ago, Phumfeinz said: Bring back Remi Garde It's probably a joke, but I had high hopes for us after Remi could get his own players in. I think he'd get this lot of playing great football. Not that it'd ever happen after we screwed him over with the last regime. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, Wezbid said: It's probably a joke, but I had high hopes for us after Remi could get his own players in. I think he'd get this lot of playing great football. Not that it'd ever happen after we screwed him over with the last regime. The players didn't help either, the likes of gabby, Richards and lescott were totally unprofessional and undermining during his regime. Wrong time for remi and think he'll be damaged from the experience for a long time 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, theboyangel said: The players didn't help either, the likes of gabby, Richards and lescott were totally unprofessional and undermining during his regime. Wrong time for remi and think he'll be damaged from the experience for a long time I think we will all be damaged by the experience for a long time 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Have you run out of arguements? Shouldn't you be typing out a 150 line post that nobody will read? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Shouldn't you be typing out a 150 line post that nobody will read? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 6 hours ago, HolteExile said: Genuine training ground work and innovation has seemingly been absent from Villa Park since Dave Sexton was coach under BFR. Brian Little's first few years were entertaining, until our start to the 97/98 season spooked him and he went uber conservative. Gregory got decent results -particularly in the first 18 months. But like many of the mangers who came afterwards, he seemed to see his role as signing big money players and throwing them altogether. With little thought about patterns of play and so forth. Our lack of movement off the ball can be traced back to this period, and it is criminal that no manager since -even if DOL and MON did get results for a period of time- has come close to rectifying it. So yes, a progressive coach who doesn't shy away from such things should -in theory- make almost an immediate impact. What also needs to be addressed is the players attitudes to each other. Currently, a goal goes in and heads drop, with no-one willing or able to rally the troops. Quite staggering, when we have captains of so many other sides all on the pitch at the same time. It seems to come down to trust. Put simply, midfielders/ forwards don't trust the goalkeeper or defence (OK, mostly Elphick) not to drop a bollock. And the goalkeeper/defence don't feel we have the firepower to get back into the game when we go a goal down. I get the impression that our squad as a whole just don't like each other very much -or if that is a bit extreme, they don't know each other, or feel the need to spend too much time with teammates outside of training or the matchday scenario. That's something Wagner apparently clocked at Huddersfield last year, and took the players away on a bonding trip in the summer. My normal instinct would be to naturally rebel against convoluted high jinx of that sort, but a number of Huddersfield players have come out and attributed their start this season to that trip. Well we saw how good DOL was at Leeds when he had money to splash, shame Doug didn't open the purse strings at the time, think DOL could've done a good job. Not sure who would be considered similar now tho. Personally I would want someone with a reputation in one of the top leagues in Europe, even if we have to pay premium wage, and say right "this is a huge club that needs to be bought back to where it belongs, we will back you in the transfer market and you can become a club hero" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 On 11/02/2017 at 20:57, Jimzk5 said: The club is poison, SB may not be everyone's cup of tea but he's record in this league is exceptional. Something is inherently wrong at this club that saps the life out of everything that goes into it. Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, av1 said: Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. I backed Bruce till this week. I'm Not takin the blame for January. I'm only responsible for ruination that occurs after yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, av1 said: Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. not even mr miyagi could instill a semblance of patience into our lot. we need continuity right now. if after 4 more games we're only a few points off relegation then I'll join the mob, but until then breathe easy and resist the urge for a good ol' town center hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 When a club is in slow motion collapse from apathy and complacency, continuity is the last thing you need. Seeking continuity and stability is the disease. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 12 hours ago, av1 said: Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. The fans have no input and virtually no influence. Until it gets beyond bearable, then fan protests have some influence. This `fickle fans' thing has stuck with us. Throw shit at a wall and some will stick. On the contrary, we as fans, have been very patient considering what we have had to put up with during and since Ellis's time, and our expectations are very reasonable. The fans with unreasonable expectations are those supporting the top clubs who are living on past glories, not us, who expect very little. You only have to read through the threads to see how reasonable our expectations are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Xia has spent the money to bring in the best players. To achieve what he wants he now needs to spend the money to bring in the best manager he can. He needs to stop messing about and wasting money employing and sacking managers who are not up to the job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 13 hours ago, av1 said: Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. Remember reading the same shit when it was clear Lerner was ruining us. Absolute garbage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 13 hours ago, av1 said: Maybe its the fans calling for change every 5mins? Lets face it, we have a new chairman, a new manager and a whole new team. We are the only common denominator if there is something "inherently wrong with this club" Just a thought.. I think you will find the common denominator is Gabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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