villa89 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Junxs said: He's just come on for Ireland for the last 15 minutes, up against Chester so should be an interesting watch You obviously don't watch Ireland much. They are, and have been tonight, even worse than Villa under Bruce to watch. MON's caveman football is an assault on the eyes. As for Hogan he's on a hiding to nothing in that Ireland team. Messi would look rubbish in that mess. Edited October 16, 2018 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Junxs said: He's just come on for Ireland for the last 15 minutes, up against Chester so should be an interesting watch commentator I think its Clive Allen said he was scoring lots of goals for us at end of last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, villa89 said: You obviously don't watch Ireland much. They are, and have been tonight, even worse than Villa under Bruce to watch. MON's caveman football is an assault on the eyes. As for Hogan he's on a hiding to nothing in that Ireland team. Messi would look rubbish in that mess. Don't generally watch International football, but I'm on night shift with nothing better to do (Iron Fist season 2 awaits when the football finishes) I did have a little giggle when the fans were singing "youre getting sacked in the morning" around the hour mark. Didn't realise it was that bad for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Junxs said: Don't generally watch International football, but I'm on night shift with nothing better to do (Iron Fist season 2 awaits when the football finishes) I did have a little giggle when the fans were singing "youre getting sacked in the morning" around the hour mark. Didn't realise it was that bad for them. as said in Ireland thread he has done a Bruce and thrown on all strikers with no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I think there have been some overreactions regarding Hogan, I've tried to defend him before and still will. I actually think it's quite simple. His level is being a player on the fringes of an average Ireland squad. Worth probably around £10M. He is a terrific Championship player and under the right circumstances he may as well be a decent striker in the Premier League. I've made the comparison to Darren Bent before. They are poachers. No way Hogan would fit in to Steve Bruce's system in the same way Bent didn't fit in to McLeish system. Hogan is quick, has good movement and is a great finisher. He needs the team to play a passing game at the opponents half, moving their defence to create space for him to move into. Under Bruce we passed the ball around in our own defence in our own half, then we kicked it direct through the channels or out wide and crossed in. Of course Hogan - as he said hmiself - does not fit that playing style. He tried to adjust and started coming deep to receive the ball, but isn't particularly good at that, obviously he is neither a target player. It is compeletely baffling that Bruce signed him and didn't know how to use him. I bet Hogan is in a line of players who we may now see flourish in a new system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2018 15 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said: He is a terrific Championship player Since when? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Since when? since before Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Looked like an absolute bag of shite when he came on for Ireland. He tried to cross the ball, it went about 30 yards over the bar, that's the Hogan I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: since before Bruce Ah okay, well he also plays badly for Ireland but guess that's Bruce's fault too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post praisedmambo Posted October 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Ah okay, well he also plays badly for Ireland but guess that's Bruce's fault too..... Not saying it's true either way, but Bruce and MON play very similar forms of non-football. It is definitely true that Hogan was very effective in a different style of play back at Brentford. It is definitely true that he looked awful for Villa under Bruce. I have been massively critical of him, but I think we all have to give him another shot under Smith with a football philosophy more suited to him. We've all seen balls hoofed at him coming straight back. I've seen it with a lot of our strikers under Bruce. I see you're still defensive about Bruce. I was going to be sympathetic about that stance, but I just can't fathom how it's possible. I turned against him at the end having been fairly supportive. I think over the first season and the second season we improved, but I think Bruce achieved that with a very limited and short-term philosophy and with an unsustainable and ill-thought-out transfer strategy. The same happened with him at Sunderland. Just look how crazily unbalanced our squad is, how many players he brought in. To add to this, I barely ever saw us dominate a game, and I think with the players we had last season we should have been much more ruthless. A better manager would have got that team promoted. For certain, a better manager, even with the disaster of Xia's stewardship, wouldn't have left us with such a mess of a squad after so many years. It's a new era now. Time will tell. I am just happy that we have a manager interested in playing good football. I always felt we were holding the likes of Grealish back by our awful style of play and I look forwards to seeing what Smith can do. Edited October 17, 2018 by praisedmambo 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Sean Maguire looked as bad as Hogan last night and Callum Robinson while played well also got zero supply Hard to judge players working under shit managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Sean Maguire looked as bad as Hogan last night and Callum Robinson while played well also got zero supply Hard to judge players working under shit managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 In his professional career his record is 1 every 2 games. Unfortunately he had only played 2 games! If he stays fit, and we play to his strengths, we have a 20+ goal a season striker on our hands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: In his professional career his record is 1 every 2 games. Unfortunately he had only played 2 games! If he stays fit, and we play to his strengths, we have a 20+ goal a season striker on our hands. Agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Scott Hogan will be, excuse the pun, like a new signing now for us. No doubt. I hope he gets a start on Saturday, it would do wonders for his confidence. Did Smith ever start two up top at Brentford? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, praisedmambo said: Not saying it's true either way, but Bruce and MON play very similar forms of non-football. It is definitely true that Hogan was very effective in a different style of play back at Brentford. It is definitely true that he looked awful for Villa under Bruce. I have been massively critical of him, but I think we all have to give him another shot under Smith with a football philosophy more suited to him. We've all seen balls hoofed at him coming straight back. I've seen it with a lot of our strikers under Bruce. I see you're still defensive about Bruce. I was going to be sympathetic about that stance, but I just can't fathom how it's possible. I turned against him at the end having been fairly supportive. I think over the first season and the second season we improved, but I think Bruce achieved that with a very limited and short-term philosophy and with an unsustainable and ill-thought-out transfer strategy. The same happened with him at Sunderland. Just look how crazily unbalanced our squad is, how many players he brought in. To add to this, I barely ever saw us dominate a game, and I think with the players we had last season we should have been much more ruthless. A better manager would have got that team promoted. It's a new era now. Time will tell. I am just happy that we have a manager interested in playing good football. I always felt we were holding the likes of Grealish back by our awful style of play and I look forwards to seeing what Smith can do. I'm not and it has little to do with my opinion of Hogan either - Hogan summed himself up for me on two occasions last night, one was a semi-difficult pass he failed to control (semi-difficult generally speaking, should be bread and butter for a professional) and the other was a cross he hit 35 yards over the bar - neither of which have anything to do with tactics in my opinion, we're talking basics here. I'm defensive over unnecessary criticisms of SB, not generally. I was asked around a week before he went what my opinion was and I stated I thought it best he went, his leaving became inevitable for all concerned and his decision making became strange, at best. So no, I am not sad or angry that he's no longer Manager but equally, I find it difficult to not react to stuff that is just plain wrong. Like how now, Brentford apparently played us off the park this season (they truly did not), how SB should have used more of our youngsters (who?!) etc etc. Once that stops I'll stop, simples. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) @bannedfromHandV I guess we'll see about the youngsters. I think there's an argument to be had that another manager might have had more faith in the likes of Clark (e?), Bedeau, Doyle-Hayes and O'Hare rather than scattershot buying the likes of Lansbury and Thor who he barely tried to use, resigning Hutton and using Jedinak as a CB. Only time will tell though. And I more or less agree with you, but I'm only judging the youth players on the time I've seen them playing Steve Bruce-style football with Steve Bruce-style preparation. I think that made a lot of people look bad. But, anyway, yeah, we'll see... EDIT: Also—I watched the Brentford extended highlights the other day (I watched the whole game at the time). It's an interesting game—easily our best game this season, perhaps ever under Bruce, but it's not as if we made half a dozen great chances ourselves. We also needed a last-minute equaliser. It is true to say that Brentford made their good own chances, while they were actually very sloppy defensively and kept giving the ball to us in dangerous positions. Maybe we were pressing better than we have ever done before or since, but I don't think we carved out our own chances, as per usual, in that game (Kodjia did carve out a chance for his first goal all by himself). It's an interesting watch. And it obviously paints an alternate view of Brentford as a team with definite weaknesses. Edited October 17, 2018 by praisedmambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Killeen30 said: Scott Hogan will be, excuse the pun, like a new signing now for us. No doubt. I hope he gets a start on Saturday, it would do wonders for his confidence. Did Smith ever start two up top at Brentford? Not a cat in hells chance he starts ahead of Abraham or Kodjia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: @bannedfromHandV I guess we'll see about the youngsters. I think there's an argument to be had that another manager might have had more faith in the likes of Clark (e?), Bedeau, Doyle-Hayes and O'Hare rather than scattershot buying the likes of Lansbury and Thor who he barely tried to use, resigning Hutton and using Jedinak as a CB. Only time will tell though. And I more or less agree with you, but I'm only judging the youth players on the time I've seen them playing Steve Bruce-style football with Steve Bruce-style preparation. I think that made a lot of people look bad. But, anyway, yeah, we'll see... Perhaps, although bear in mind that Lansbury and thor were signed over 18 months ago, there's debate now as to whether any of those youngsters mentioned are ready or good enough for the first team so 18 months ago, they were probably even further away. Look, I'd love to have a villa team made up entirely of academy players but I (and I doubt others) would be prepared to sacrifice quality for sentiment. I remember under Houllier when we fielded a team largely made up of academy players (out of necessity), we were shite (although I do recall an entertaining game with Arsenal which we lost 4-2 I think with Clark bagging 2) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2018 I think the truth with Hogan, like alot of things, lays somewhere down the middle. He is nowhere near as shite some believe, nor is he anywhere near as good as some may believe. What is certain is that he has been misused and mismanaged here. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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