Scott Hogan

[brummybloke]

Hogan and his type of player make runs all the time, most don't get used when we have the ball but it draws players out of position and it create space where he originally was if his run isn't used directly.

So while it may look like they have done nothing all game, chances are they have kept at least 1 or 2 opponents busy all game freeing up others to have a go.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Hogan and his type of player make runs all the time, most don't get used when we have the ball but it draws players out of position and it create space where he originally was if his run isn't used directly.

So while it may look like they have done nothing all game, chances are they have kept at least 1 or 2 opponents busy all game freeing up others to have a go.

Granted I don't watch him that closely, but I haven't seen a player that's looking difficult to mark. The blues game stands out for me, until Gabby came on they looked completely at ease and like it was a walk in the park at the back. 

[bobzy]

4 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

Doesn't really work that way, though, does it.

They need a structure, a system, so they know what their interaction with their team mates should be.

Y'know - coaching. 

I find it pretty hard to believe that midfielders who had previously been picking passes etc. at their previous clubs suddenly cannot find strikers because they aren't "being coached".

They're either being told to do things differently, are overawed or are taking time to know how their new(ish) teammates operate.

[bobzy]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I get the service argument. But even if we were playing well what are we realistically expecting, 2/3 good chances created for him a game? 

What should he be doing for the other 87 minutes? I can't believe people think all he should do is run on to the odd chance that we might create. Surely he has to make life difficult for defenders, play some part in the build up and run channels at times. There has to be more expectation on a £14 million player than run into a good ball every so often. 

It's the lack of anything that I have a problem with. When things aren't going perfectly a striker still has to get involved and cause problems. He's currently so easy to play against that he's not worth having. 

I think part of that is because our midfield don't offer much centrally (at the moment).  Hogan makes a run and none of McCormack/Hourihane/Lansbury/Green/Thor/whoever are making a similar run in a different manner.  Therefore, he's incredibly easy to isolate for a defensive unit.  If you had, say, 3 attacking runs from players with the ball still in midfield, he may prove to be tougher to play against.

That's where he worked so well for Brentford - Jota, Vibe, Hogan; they all wanted to move around and attack the box.  We have nothing like it in our side at the moment.

[Demitri_C]

got a feeling when big kodj is back we will see him more on the shoulder to accommodate hogan. so far its been particularly unsuccessful. I am wondering if Hogan is struggling playing for a club like this with the expectations. I think he would have flopped at west ham based on what i have seen so far

[hippo]

So we have pay £9m+ for a guy who can't do much unless he receives the ball in open space. Don't see him ever scoring many for us. Kienan Davis does far more for me.

[Czechlad]

12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

got a feeling when big kodj is back we will see him more on the shoulder to accommodate hogan. so far its been particularly unsuccessful. I am wondering if Hogan is struggling playing for a club like this with the expectations. I think he would have flopped at west ham based on what i have seen so far

If you watch Hogan's highlights before he joined us, Hogan was being fed chances each match. There was an attacking mid right behind Hogan who was able to actually get Hogan the ball when he made those runs. 

We don't play in a way to suit Hogan at all. It was a silly signing and a lot of us said it 6 months ago. There is a reason Kodjia and Davis look good when playing for us, and that is because we utilize a target man way more than a speedy forward. 

[hippo]

15 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

If you watch Hogan's highlights before he joined us, Hogan was being fed chances each match. There was an attacking mid right behind Hogan who was able to actually get Hogan the ball when he made those runs. 

We don't play in a way to suit Hogan at all. It was a silly signing and a lot of us said it 6 months ago. There is a reason Kodjia and Davis look good when playing for us, and that is because we utilize a target man way more than a speedy forward. 

I don't actually think he is that speedy.

As previous poster has said the difference v blues when gabby came was significant - to lesser extent when Davis came on for Hogan v Brighton we looked much more threatening. He might have done well at Brentford but he shown very little in a villa shirt. 

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, hippo said:

So we have pay £9m+ for a guy who can't do much unless he receives the ball in open space. Don't see him ever scoring many for us. Kienan Davis does far more for me.

Whilst I think his inclusion caused us some problems overall, Darren Bent was a similar type of player IMO.  Very clever at making runs behind, beating offside traps etc and scored a load of goals - but ultimately offered little if he was isolated.

Hogan is similar (not the same, just similar).  He offers intelligent movement and will run all day, but if the creativity isn't there he becomes more of a hindrance because he doesn't hold things up or bring others in.  He's very direct.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Ok I just watched Hogans Brentford goals and one thing that stood out was the defending was woeful. No way has he ever been given that kind of space and time when playing for villa. Maybe it's true that teams really do raise their game when playing us which is one of the reasons players that looked good elsewhere are struggling. 

Watch his goals and you'll see what I mean.

[Grasshopper]

On 14/07/2017 at 11:41, TRO said:

I don't subscribe to that.

Its the players we sign or have in our squad that will determine that.

I don't believe for one minute that John Terry has signed for us with a view to playing dour kick and rush football or just randomly hoofing it up field.

 

yeah I know, but Bruce forgot to tell him

[vreitti]

It seems fairly obvious Hogan isn't a Bruce type of striker/player. The same could be argued for RMC also, which is probably why they both struggle atm. 

I'd really like to know Bruce's thinking in regard to Hogan. Did he really think he'd be able to develop him into a different type of striker? Or did he actually intend to feed him from the midfield? Signing Hourihane and Lansbury at the same time, sure points to the latter. But both of them also struggle. It just doesn't make sense to me. All these evidently good players being utter garbage for us. 

If coaching is the problem, surely Bruce knows this and will do something about it?

[DaveAV1]

22 minutes ago, vreitti said:

It seems fairly obvious Hogan isn't a Bruce type of striker/player. The same could be argued for RMC also, which is probably why they both struggle atm. 

I'd really like to know Bruce's thinking in regard to Hogan. Did he really think he'd be able to develop him into a different type of striker? Or did he actually intend to feed him from the midfield? Signing Hourihane and Lansbury at the same time, sure points to the latter. But both of them also struggle. It just doesn't make sense to me. All these evidently good players being utter garbage for us. 

If coaching is the problem, surely Bruce knows this and will do something about it?

Resign?

[villan-scott]

28 minutes ago, vreitti said:

It seems fairly obvious Hogan isn't a Bruce type of striker/player. The same could be argued for RMC also, which is probably why they both struggle atm. 

I'd really like to know Bruce's thinking in regard to Hogan. Did he really think he'd be able to develop him into a different type of striker? Or did he actually intend to feed him from the midfield? Signing Hourihane and Lansbury at the same time, sure points to the latter. But both of them also struggle. It just doesn't make sense to me. All these evidently good players being utter garbage for us. 

If coaching is the problem, surely Bruce knows this and will do something about it?

The same Steve Bruce that got the very best out of Darren Bent at Sunderland. Who, to my mind, is fairly similar to Hogan as a poacher/finisher.

I'm sure it'll click into place for Hogan at Villa. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by villan-scott

[hippo]

2 hours ago, vreitti said:

It seems fairly obvious Hogan isn't a Bruce type of striker/player. The same could be argued for RMC also, which is probably why they both struggle atm. 

I'd really like to know Bruce's thinking in regard to Hogan. Did he really think he'd be able to develop him into a different type of striker? Or did he actually intend to feed him from the midfield? Signing Hourihane and Lansbury at the same time, sure points to the latter. But both of them also struggle. It just doesn't make sense to me. All these evidently good players being utter garbage for us. 

If coaching is the problem, surely Bruce knows this and will do something about it?

RMC is decent player - unfortunately he has pretty major off field issues, personally I don't think he will overcome these.

Hogan for me needs to up his game massively - service or service no service. It ridiculous that he can only do stuff if he runs onto through balls with no defenders in front of him.

Not a starter for me.   

[Zatman]

have we tried a McCormack/Hogan partnership yet?

[dubbs]

Yes at the weekend. Think they had a combined zero shots between them.

[hippo]

Wonder if St Etienne are short of a striker or two  

[Eastie]

Looks a shadow of the player he was at brentford - confidence looks low and hardly involved in the game when on the pitch .

[villa89]

On 7/18/2017 at 06:11, vreitti said:

It seems fairly obvious Hogan isn't a Bruce type of striker/player.

Then why did he sign him? Surely he had a plan to fit Hogan and Kodjia into the same team and for them to be a potent attacking threat. If you were being cynical about Bruce's ability as a manager you might suggest that he signed Hogan because of his goalscoring record and is assuming that he will continue to score goals. The missing link is of course that the player has to fit into your style of play and that strikers need supply to score goals, both points that seem to be lost on Bruce.