Zatman Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Kind of harsh. He's in that weird limbo space just doesn't have the ability/physicality for this particular level but also being really good for the level below. Kind of like Dwight Gayle. The PL seems to be too much for him, but when he steps down to the Championship, he scores 20+ goals no problem. Cameron Jerome syndrome 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Glad he's doing well. Not sure Swansea will get top 2 (think Brentford will take the extra step this season) but if they go up I imagine we'll offer him permanently for 4-5m and that will all round be good business as we really struggle to move on squad players for 5-10m like even mid table prem clubs can so we need to learn to do that to help with FFP stuff and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, useless said: If he's good enough to play against the likes of Newcastle, Burnley, West Ham and so on, a decent level of premier league opposition, then he's good enough to play a part in the premier league. I think it goes back to the old adage that most football fans don't know what they're talking about when it comes to midielders, most seem to think that you're not good enough if you're not some sort of midfield dynamo running past players, making crunching tackles and creating chance after chance, as if it's a video or something. Likes of Petrov, Westwood, and even Whelan were all underrated for similar reasons, and so too are players at other clubs like Winks, Rice and so on, even Henderson was in that category at one point. He doesn't need to be a midfield dynamo. None of our midfielders are to be honest. This is a very bad faith take. For one Conor isn't anything like those midfielders you listed. He has to be able to take the ball on the half turn and move it out of his feet quickly or failing that at least be able to run with the ball. Neither of which he's able to do against teams who press competently. Hence why I mentioned Newcastle, Burnley and West Ham as they typically don't press in midfield so he has the time to take the 3 or so touches he needs to get the ball out of his feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 We need to hold Swansea ransom when they try to sign him permanently - like what Bournmouth did with Mings. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smg Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: He has to essentially be given a free role in the #10 position to be effective in the PL. Put him in midfield and the pace of the game is too much for him. Any team that presses and he might as well not be on the pitch. But games against Newcastle, Burnley, West Ham etc are fine for him. You have just described Ross Barkley who apparently we might pay 20 mill plus for to replace Conor , sounds like a deal ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, smg said: You have just described Ross Barkley who apparently we might pay 20 mill plus for to replace Conor , sounds like a deal ? His performances against Liverpool, Arsenal and Leicester say otherwise. Form is temporary etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smg Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: His performances against Liverpool, Arsenal and Leicester say otherwise. Form is temporary etc etc. So he can live of those for how long ? There are reasons why Everton let him go and Chelsea don’t seem bothered. You rate him, I don’t there isn’t much more to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, smg said: So he can live of those for how long ? There are reasons why Everton let him go and Chelsea don’t seem bothered. You rate him, I don’t there isn’t much more to say. I don't even rate him that highly, but he can do all the things I listed there no problem when he's fit as he was when he first came here. Running with the ball from midfield, really only Jack is better than him in this team. He can play 1 touch football etc. As much as I love Conor, they're not in the same league (quite literally now), sorry. Also kind of revisionist about how he left Everton (as if Chelsea are in the business of buying Everton rejects), and we have no clue if Chelsea are bothered or not, these are your own assumptions. When he left Everton, he was one of the best young players in the league and has had over 30 caps for England. Say you don't want to sign him fine, but no need to rewrite history. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smg Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I don't even rate him that highly, but he can do all the things I listed there no problem when he's fit as he was when he first came here. Running with the ball from midfield, really only Jack is better than him in this team. He can play 1 touch football etc. As much as I love Conor, they're not in the same league (quite literally now), sorry. Also kind of revisionist about how he left Everton (as if Chelsea are in the business of buying Everton rejects), and we have no clue if Chelsea are bothered or not, these are your own assumptions. When he left Everton, he was one of the best young players in the league and has had over 30 caps for England. Say you don't want to sign him fine, but no need to rewrite history. Chelsea are in the business of buying anyone, look at the number of players they have on loan around Europe possibly the world I can’t be bothered to check, but if he was so good why did Everton let him leave ? If he is that good then money isn’t the issue, which is why we haven’t sold Grealish. Using fitness as a positive isn’t really convincing as that has been a massive problem for him throughout his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, smg said: Chelsea are in the business of buying anyone, look at the number of players they have on loan around Europe possibly the world I can’t be bothered to check, but if he was so good why did Everton let him leave ? If he is that good then money isn’t the issue, which is why we haven’t sold Grealish. Using fitness as a positive isn’t really convincing as that has been a massive problem for him throughout his career. Huh? This is very perplexing logic. Most good players leave smaller clubs for bigger ones. We've been extremely lucky with Jack but our situation is far from typical. Did we let Ashley Young go for cheap because he wasn't good enough? Or was it that he only had 18 months left on his contract and he was too good for us? Barkley only had 6 months left on his when he left, and Chelsea still paid 15 million for his services. I'm not making a case for Barkley signing for Aston Villa. I'm just saying he's a comfortably better player than Conor is all, which is the comparison you made, not me. Again, if you don't want to sign him that's fine, but rewriting history is just weird. Barkley was a very good player in his Everton days, and they have yet to replace him to this day. In fact, they once signed like 3 attacking midfielders in one season under Big Sam to fill that void and it just didn't work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smg Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Huh? This is very perplexing logic. Most good players leave smaller clubs for bigger ones. We've been extremely lucky with Jack but our situation is far from typical. Did we let Ashley Young go for cheap because he wasn't good enough? Or was it that he only had 18 months left on his contract and he was too good for us? Barkley only had 6 months left on his when he left, and Chelsea still paid 15 million for his services. I'm not making a case for Barkley signing for Aston Villa. I'm just saying he's a comfortably better player than Conor is all, which is the comparison you made, not me. Again, if you don't want to sign him that's fine, but rewriting history is just weird. Barkley was a very good player in his Everton days, and they have yet to replace him to this day. In fact, they once signed like 3 attacking midfielders in one season under Big Sam to fill that void and it just didn't work. Probably says more about Big Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 8 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Huh? This is very perplexing logic. Most good players leave smaller clubs for bigger ones. We've been extremely lucky with Jack but our situation is far from typical. Did we let Ashley Young go for cheap because he wasn't good enough? Or was it that he only had 18 months left on his contract and he was too good for us? Barkley only had 6 months left on his when he left, and Chelsea still paid 15 million for his services. I'm not making a case for Barkley signing for Aston Villa. I'm just saying he's a comfortably better player than Conor is all, which is the comparison you made, not me. Again, if you don't want to sign him that's fine, but rewriting history is just weird. Barkley was a very good player in his Everton days, and they have yet to replace him to this day. In fact, they once signed like 3 attacking midfielders in one season under Big Sam to fill that void and it just didn't work. How exactly is Barkley comfortably a better player than Conor? They're both useless defensively and feel anonymous most of the gsmr so its pretty much a wash there. Stats wise, offensively Conor had a better assist per minute ratio last season than Barkley in his peak Everton season and his goals per minute ratio isn't much worse either. Not that this is anywhere near peak Barkley mind you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tomaszk Posted February 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2021 22 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: How exactly is Barkley comfortably a better player than Conor? He's much better at football. Better at controlling, kicking, heading, dribbling and positioning himself around the sack of air these wallies spend all game chasing. I think Barkley would look pretty tasty in that Swansea team in the Championship. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: How exactly is Barkley comfortably a better player than Conor? They're both useless defensively and feel anonymous most of the gsmr so its pretty much a wash there. Stats wise, offensively Conor had a better assist per minute ratio last season than Barkley in his peak Everton season and his goals per minute ratio isn't much worse either. Not that this is anywhere near peak Barkley mind you For starters, he can receive the ball and turn and get his head up and has the time to do so. That right there already makes him a better midfielder than Conor who can only seemingly play with his back/side to goal with the ball at his feet. Conor just doesn't have the time to do this. It's a combination of him being to slow physically as well as in terms of speed of thought and not quite having the technical ability. Not quite sure of the ratio there. Teams press Barkley, he has the physical ability and speed of thought to either pick a good pass forward, or wriggle out of trouble. Conversely, Conor has to invariably pass it back and if he tries anything more extravagant than that, he has to take more touches (due to his ability) and by the time he does that in the PL, that's it he's lost the ball. Watch footage of any game Conor played for us in the PL. He struggles with 1/2 touch football in this league. Like I said, Barkley can pass the ball forward, and has vision far more advanced than Conor's, and his execution when on form is beyond anything Conor can dream of. Be real, when's the last time you saw Conor make a through ball? Exactly. He can drive forward with the ball as well, which seems to be very important for our team. Again, not in Conor's locker. Like at all. He's not a world beater or anything, and he's in horrendous form (I personally think he's in a very tricky spot fitness-wise in this mess of a schedule and I worry if he can get out of this, and his injury record is concerning in itself), but as much as I love Conor they're just not on the same level. If you're comparing Conor Hourihane to peak Barkley at Everton, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. The old adage of football not being played on paper comes to mind. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 6, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Keyblade said: For starters, he can receive the ball and turn and get his head up and has the time to do so. That right there already makes him a better midfielder than Conor who can only seemingly play with his back/side to goal with the ball at his feet. Conor just doesn't have the time to do this. It's a combination of him being to slow physically as well as in terms of speed of thought and not quite having the technical ability. Not quite sure of the ratio there. Teams press Barkley, he has the physical ability and speed of thought to either pick a good pass forward, or wriggle out of trouble. Conversely, Conor has to invariably pass it back and if he tries anything more extravagant than that, he has to take more touches (due to his ability) and by the time he does that in the PL, that's it he's lost the ball. Watch footage of any game Conor played for us in the PL. He struggles with 1/2 touch football in this league. Like I said, Barkley can pass the ball forward, and has vision far more advanced than Conor's, and his execution when on form is beyond anything Conor can dream of. Be real, when's the last time you saw Conor make a through ball? Exactly. He can drive forward with the ball as well, which seems to be very important for our team. Again, not in Conor's locker. Like at all. He's not a world beater or anything, and he's in horrendous form (I personally think he's in a very tricky spot fitness-wise in this mess of a schedule and I worry if he can get out of this, and his injury record is concerning in itself), but as much as I love Conor they're just not on the same level. If you're comparing Conor Hourihane to peak Barkley at Everton, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. The old adage of football not being played on paper comes to mind It's not just how good a player can be it's how much a player wants to succeed and what character they bring to the team, now Conor has shown his drive to succeed and improve and Barkley has his chance to show that now, will he do that is the question. .not to sure he will but would love to be wrong. Edited February 6, 2021 by tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tomaszk said: He's much better at football. Better at controlling, kicking, heading, dribbling and positioning himself around the sack of air these wallies spend all game chasing. I think Barkley would look pretty tasty in that Swansea team in the Championship. Barkley would score 30 plus goals and have about 20 assists. It would be really unfair on the championship. A bit like choosing Brazil in pro evolution soccer 98 when Ronaldo used to skin everyone. Lol. Edited February 6, 2021 by Sulberto21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 10 hours ago, nepal_villan said: We need to hold Swansea ransom when they try to sign him permanently - like what Bournmouth did with Mings. I agree we should have but I don't think that will happen pal as he is out of contact come May I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I agree we should have but I don't think that will happen pal as he is out of contact come May I believe. Nuh he was given a new deal around same time Deano was iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Nuh he was given a new deal around same time Deano was iirc You are indeed correct, it's 2022 - My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 How much could we realistically command? £10-13m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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