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1 hour ago, Stratvillan said:

Theres always a trend on VT for players ability to increase when they're not playing see Keinan for an example.

It's strange that Conor who has (whether you rate him or not) been a key player in our recent history, his ability seems to decrease week by week.

Hes off the pace in training, hes aged horribly etc 

I think in terms of our midfield the order is

Grealish

McGinn,  Luiz

Ramsey, Hourihane, Nakamba

 

 

 

Lansbury

 

Grealish is so far ahead of everyone else its ridiculous.

McGinn and Luiz are both 2 and 3rd choice (in a 3 man midfield)

To say that Conor has no future, is below our level is premature. He is 1 of 3 vying to be first back up.

We would like him to be below our level, we are not there yet. If we sell Lansbury and hourihane in jan, we would end up relying on Ramsey and Nakamba as starters in a reasonable amount if games.

That's dangerous imo.

I think 2 of our first 3 midfield options will leave in the summer. Players such as hourihane will provide the professionalism and character  we've so often lacked outside the first team, to ensure some degree of consistency. 

Where's Barkley?

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He was never going to come in for Luiz as he isn't a holding/defensive midfielder.

I think he would have been disappointed not to start against Wolves but Ramsey offers more energy so can see why we went with him.

We are not yet in a position to think he is no linger needed. We have 3 games in 6 days coming up after WBA and I expect he'll get some game time.

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10 hours ago, Stratvillan said:

 

It's strange that Conor who has (whether you rate him or not) been a key player in our recent history, his ability seems to decrease week by week.

 

Conor isn't out injured, he's being purposely left out of the first team by Smith to the point of changing the formation and even bringing in a youth player. And Smith currently has the backing of most of this forum, so they trust that he's made the right decision here. This makes it so that the idea of wanting Conor in the team doesn't sit easy with the level of support that Smith currently has, so people rationalize it by playing down Conor. If we start going on a bad run and Smith persists on not playing Conor, I'm guessing you'll see a lot more support for him to be in the team.

He is also a weird player because in games where he doesn't score or assist, he is virtually anonymous and this is frustrating to watch. And he's not going to score or assist every game or two, so it feels like most of the time he's a waste of space on the pitch. Compare that to  our other players who are usually always actively involved in some way. I remember calling it the Conor cycle last season, because we went through that phase where he'd score or assist and this forum praising him, be anonymous for the next couple of games before popping up with another goal or assist and the cycle repeats itself.

Its not luck that Conor has been such a vital player in our history. Its because he is one of our main attacking threats and not only from set pieces which I think is focused on more because its one of the most obvious ways we can see his contribution.  But last season he had as many goals and assists from open play combined as he did from set pieces. Per minute, Conor had the best assist per minute ratio out of entire squad last season even including Grealish. And his goals per minute ratio is among the top too and the best out of all our central midfielders. 

Even this season he's already had a goal and an assist to his name despite only playing 236 minutes so far. Its not as if he's started off with a dry spell. There's not much evidence of him regressing significantly as a player as of yet. Yet it seems like people are all too quick to disregard him.

 

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12 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Conor isn't out injured, he's being purposely left out of the first team by Smith to the point of changing the formation and even bringing in a youth player. And Smith currently has the backing of most of this forum, so they trust that he's made the right decision here. This makes it so that the idea of wanting Conor in the team doesn't sit easy with the level of support that Smith currently has, so people rationalize it by playing down Conor. If we start going on a bad run and Smith persists on not playing Conor, I'm guessing you'll see a lot more support for him to be in the team.

He is also a weird player because in games where he doesn't score or assist, he is virtually anonymous and this is frustrating to watch. And he's not going to score or assist every game or two, so it feels like most of the time he's a waste of space on the pitch. Compare that to  our other players who are usually always actively involved in some way. I remember calling it the Conor cycle last season, because we went through that phase where he'd score or assist and this forum praising him, be anonymous for the next couple of games before popping up with another goal or assist and the cycle repeats itself.

Its not luck that Conor has been such a vital player in our history. Its because he is one of our main attacking threats and not only from set pieces which I think is focused on more because its one of the most obvious ways we can see his contribution.  But last season he had as many goals and assists from open play combined as he did from set pieces. Per minute, Conor had the best assist per minute ratio out of entire squad last season even including Grealish. And his goals per minute ratio is among the top too and the best out of all our central midfielders. 

Even this season he's already had a goal and an assist to his name despite only playing 236 minutes so far. Its not as if he's started off with a dry spell. There's not much evidence of him regressing significantly as a player as of yet. Yet it seems like people are all too quick to disregard him.

 

If you observe our play this season, we are one of the few teams who's pressing stats have increased as opposed to many who have decreased.

We are 4th in the pressing league.....it is not without notice than Conor is not his natural self, pressing.

As you progress in this league, its clear you have to force errors out of the opposition, that is not Conors natural game either.

As we have aspirations for loftier positions, i see him have less game time, he is not the most industrious of players and that too hampers his opportunities.

not saying he is a bad player, he has been instrumental in our progress, but as that progress continues its inevitable, players will drop out.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, Johnnyp said:

Not a bad word to say about him. Remarkable value. 2 million. Done a great job but this isn't his level. If he doesn't move in January, i think we'll move him on in the summer.

Pretty sure his contract is up in the summer anyway, it's been mentioned a few times on various podcasts I listen to

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People are quite quick to write off Conor, he has a habit of bouncing back.

He will still play a part this season with the amount of games to come, injuries and Covid will see him step in some weeks.

Knowing Conor he will take his chance and give Smith another headache.

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Worth remembering it was only two months ago AEG was struggling to even make the bench for league.

That said think Conor is done here given Ramsey is regularly getting on instead of him and Barkley will obviously come back into the mix very soon.

Great servant but he's one of those we could move on for 4-5m and balance the books a little bit after mass spending of last 2 years.

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24 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Worth remembering it was only two months ago AEG was struggling to even make the bench for league.

That said think Conor is done here given Ramsey is regularly getting on instead of him and Barkley will obviously come back into the mix very soon.

Great servant but he's one of those we could move on for 4-5m and balance the books a little bit after mass spending of last 2 years.

Unfortunately Conor doesn't have the ability to make the same sort of impact. He's reached his ceiling, and that's fine.

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4 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said:

Whatever way it goes he has been great for us. If I was a championship club I would be looking to get him in Jan especially if I was close or in the playoffs. He still has a lot to offer at that level in my opinion.

sure is teams down the bottom that are desperate for goals. Baggies, Brighton, Sheffield United maybe even Burnley he could do a job

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