Conor Hourihane

[Tomaszk]

4 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

If we go down he stays for me and I will be happy with that. If we stay up he should be moved on.

That's where I am with Dean Smith.

Hourihane could score 20 goals from midfield easily, but he needs someone doing the hard work for him, we definitely don't have that right now.

He's Darren Bent but plays in midfield.

[KentVillan]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

I am not saying he is a premiership player, but he is a victim of an unbalanced squad.

There have been many lightweight players that have managed to get by, because there has been an enforcer in the side to compensate.....He/We have no one like that......He has a wand of a left foot, which is a weapon and on the offensive, he can drift in to dangerous positions to let fly......If he went to another club with the right players to do the ball winning job, he would be more valued for what he does best.

If Nakamba was supposed to be he isn't......at the moment.

What tickles me is when folk talk about our poor defending, some say this and that......"its not Deans game"......But when it comes to physical contact on the pitch, Conor can't get the same mitigation.....double standards or what.

All true, but for me he just lacks too much of the compensating skills you’d expect from a lightweight player - his passing, dribbling, reading of the game, etc are all Championship level at best. We’re not talking about a David Silva here.

He certainly has a Premier League quality left foot, especially off set pieces, and in the right side could be a useful squad player in the PL. Indeed, I think we’ve actually used him quite well, by playing him mainly against weaker opposition where we can play to his strengths.

My point in the previous post was about how he doesn’t deserve the flak for having a poor attitude or being a pussy. I think he’s been a good servant to this club, but he’s just a bit too far off the level required to be a regular starter at this level.

He panics under pressure because he isn’t good enough to turn out of trouble and pick the right pass. What he likes is a bit of space and thinking time (eg a set piece, or the ball dropping to him in the hole) and then he can look very good and do a lot of damage.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Because he's a professional who doesn't cry to the press at any problem, trying to protect himself like Bruce and Sherwood.

I'm sure he isn't happy with the players he's been given, how can he be? You want him to come out and say he doesn't have players? How does that help?

Smith's loss of faith in Hourihane is alarming. Bournemouth away for example. Absolutely made for him. Sat in the opposition half against 10 men and he brought Trez on ahead of him. Marvelous of course ballooned two useless shots over the bar second half, no doubt in my mind Conor would have scored at least one of them.

So Bruce and Sherwood who have both captained title winning sides are cry babies and unprofessional.....give it a rest......they might be many things, but have another shot as that was a cheap one.

whats wrong in saying he can clearly see what is wrong and he knows how to fix it.....you can't be sure he isn't happy with the players, he's never indicated anything......He is likely to be unhappy losing, granted.....but he has given no indication of what many fans allude to regarding defending.

Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

The mess he was allowed to make was criminal. The same will perhaps be said of Suso in 12 months, such a shame.

He spent £12m on Scott Hogan and had hardly seen him play. Yet another hole he'd left. An unusable £12m player on £40k a week. A striker. That's his fault yes.

didn't see you complaining when we bought him.....we have just spent £140 mill you could pick holes in.....but that wouldn't fit the agenda now would it.

[Zatman]

still with the bizarre Steve Bruce defence 

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

So Bruce and Sherwood who have both captained title winning sides are cry babies and unprofessional.....give it a rest......they might be many things, but have another shot as that was a cheap one.

whats wrong in saying he can clearly see what is wrong and he knows how to fix it.....you can't be sure he isn't happy with the players, he's never indicated anything......He is likely to be unhappy losing, granted.....but he has given no indication of what many fans allude to.

They did cry in the media and were unprofessional, Smith didnt have a go at what Bruce left but Bruce and Sherwood did to the managers previously. Seems to be a trait for a certain type of manager because Pardew, Di Canio have done similar as well

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Because he's a professional who doesn't cry to the press at any problem, trying to protect himself like Bruce and Sherwood.

I'm sure he isn't happy with the players he's been given, how can he be? You want him to come out and say he doesn't have players? How does that help?

Smith's loss of faith in Hourihane is alarming. Bournemouth away for example. Absolutely made for him. Sat in the opposition half against 10 men and he brought Trez on ahead of him. Marvelous of course ballooned two useless shots over the bar second half, no doubt in my mind Conor would have scored at least one of them.

No its not, its perfectly feasible.I can see clearly why Smith would be reluctant to play a lightweight midfielder AWAY from home in a bottom of the table scrap....I think it was a feasible call.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, turvontour said:

This is where I am with him. I dont think he or others expected him to play as much football as he has at this level. We bought 3 or 4 £10-15mil midfielders in the summer. The reason he has played so much is because they haven't been the standard we'd hoped.

He was never going to make a McGinn or Grealish type impact. 

spot on.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Zatman said:

still with the bizarre Steve Bruce defence 

They did cry in the media and were unprofessional, Smith didnt have a go at what Bruce left but Bruce and Sherwood did to the managers previously. Seems to be a trait for a certain type of manager because Pardew, Di Canio have done similar as well

are you scraping the barrel now....my defence of some of the criticisms is not bizarre, its simply because, I don't agree with you.

If everyone who disagree's with you is bizarre....then fine.

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

are you scraping the barrel now....my defence of some of the criticisms is not bizarre, its simply because, I don't agree with you.

If everyone who disagree's with you is bizarre....then fine.

Its more the fact you went on another pro Steve Bruce rant when he is the reason we are still playing players like Hourihane regularly because he left so many important holes in the squad like forcing us to sign 4 centre backs, a new striker, new full backs, new wingers. You then tried to change the goalposts by saying Bruce inherited a crap team which is irrelevant to the topic

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Its more the fact you went on another pro Steve Bruce rant when he is the reason we are still playing players like Hourihane regularly because he left so many important holes in the squad like forcing us to sign 4 centre backs, a new striker, new full backs, new wingers. You then tried to change the goalposts by saying Bruce inherited a crap team which is irrelevant to the topic

but I didn't go on a rant, I was calling you out for your miserable comments on him.....If you gave a balanced assessment on the bloke instead of your one eyed hatchet job and stop blaming him for Deans shortfalls after 18 months which is laughable, then I wouldn't make a peep on him....He's gone, long gone.....you need to put the bone down.

No lets get this right....you want to hang him out and your being selective in your criticisms, if its not his style of play, which was boring, its press comments, I could give a kippers dick what he or any manager says to the press, its barrel scraping.....He left, Tammy, Jack and John Mcginn.....basically the trio that got us promoted....so open your eyes......even Dean said at wembley that both goalscorers were Steve Bruce signings, to shut fans like you up, from poor criticism.....yes Dean was Professional, you are right on that.

its not changing the topic at all, I was trying to put some perspective on it, all managers leave holes, else they wouldn't be sacked....the team couldn't stop goals going in when he took over we were like a sieve, like now, if you care to admit to that....or do you only watch them going in the one end?

sure things were not all right, but having a fraud as a chairman was not easy either and going through a summer not knowing if we had a club or he had a job and  personal issues you have the gall to criticise the bloke for not having certain players , we couldn't pay the tax bill, never mind not have a centre back.....Its wasn't good, no one is disputing that, but christ mate, he had some s*** to deal with.

Its not a case of me defending him, per se......... its case of defending him against your complete white wash of him.....I just do not subscribe to your Character assassination of the man, its as simple as that.

When he went the time was right, not disputing that.

and I think its poor sport, to keep defaulting back to Bruce every time a bit of criticism is directed at Dean Smith, he has been in the job 18 months now, when is it going to be down to him, without Bruce's name mentioned?

Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO

[Zatman]

Because Bruce left a shit unbalanced squad in a mess, he gets no praise and did nothing compared to Smith. Sure he has never even beat Smith as a manager with better teams

As you are aware there is a Steve Bruce thread already where you can keep praisimg hin

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Because Bruce left a shit unbalanced squad in a mess, he gets no praise and did nothing compared to Smith. Sure he has never even beat Smith as a manager with better teams

As you are aware there is a Steve Bruce thread already where you can keep praisimg hin

Its like i say if you listen....I have no motivation to ever praise him....I' m defending him against your one eyed criticisms and his name is brought up, when you defend Smith.

its like I say, every manager leaves a squad, few are happy with and on the back of nearly going bust, (which you have conveniently ignored) is it any wonder, hardly the perfect summer preparation.

If Dean left now, he would be leaving an unbalanced squad.....so your point is moot.

If you don't wallow in the steve Bruce bashing.....I certainly have no motivation to defend him....why on earth, would I praise a manager, i was happy to see go.....its only your OTT comments that motivate me to put balance in to the debate.

[Zatman]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its like i say if you listen....I have no motivation to ever praise him....I' m defending him against your one eyed criticisms and his name is brought up, when you defend Smith.

its like I say, every manager leaves a squad, few are happy with and on the back of nearly going bust, (which you have conveniently ignored) is it any wonder, hardly the perfect summer preparation.

If Dean left now, he would be leaving an unbalanced squad.....so your point is moot.

If you don't wallow in the steve Bruce bashing.....I certainly have no motivation to defend him....why on earth, would I praise a manager, i was happy to see go.....its only your OTT comments that motivate me to put balance in to the debate.

Maybe you should read my initial 2 line comment which sparked you to immediately rush to his defence

Smith also wouldn't leave us an unbalanced squad if he left today, not a great squad but at least balanced.

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Maybe you should read my initial 2 line comment which sparked you to immediately rush to his defence

Smith also wouldn't leave us an unbalanced squad if he left today, not a great squad but at least balanced.

No, I was responding to disparaging remarks made by another poster regarding Bruce and Sherwood, which I felt was OTT and unnecessary and you joined in...i have no actual interest in praising either of them, but fairs, fair Imo.

I disagree that his squad is balanced.....We are essentially a one man band....maybe in context its players missing v players being not good enough.

I am not expecting you to agree, as we seem to see things differently....but we have no midfield General or Enforcer, imo probably the reason why we are so poor at defending.....its as bad as having no striker or centre back....its a specialist role that is missing.

Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I am not expecting you to agree, but we have no midfield General or Enforcer, probably the reason why we are so poor at defending.....its as bad as having no striker or centre back....its a specialist role that is missing.

I do agree  

Unfortunately midfield generals are a thing of the past and cant really thing of one of the top of my head, closest in the Premier League is probably Henderson at the moment but even then he hasnt got a patch on the players of the past. Fernandinho maybe be another but he is 34 and City cant find a replacement.  Just like box to box midfielders they have been phased out of the game

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I do agree  

Unfortunately midfield generals are a thing of the past and cant really thing of one of the top of my head, closest in the Premier League is probably Henderson at the moment but even then he hasnt got a patch on the players of the past. Fernandinho maybe be another but he is 34 and City cant find a replacement.  Just like box to box midfielders they have been phased out of the game

I respectfully say, its more likely they are in short supply....it is not surprising you mention 2 and they are both the best teams in the league...so they must feel a need for them.

Ndidi at Leicester and Kante are also top class at that role......it may not be such an obvious role as yesteryear, with the increase of pace in the game and the seemingly strict refereeing....but if you look around, most teams have a man to stop the opposition, it depends what label folk want to put on it.

For me a ball winner, enforcer, General,insurance man as Ron Atkinson referred to the role, will always be required in a successful team.

The confusion may come when the very best can play a bit too, like Busquets and the Essiens. 

i actually think Conor is more of a Box to Box type as he does have an end product...he is more of a marauding midfielder, but he has no one to protect his absence when he leaves midfield, so he gets blame.....just my take on it fwiw.

I am more than happy with the spectacle Dean Smith has endeavoured to deliver and it hasn't gone unnoticed the full houses and 8,000 fans waiting for precious season tickets.....but he has to get to grips with our conceding so easily and so often. I think it could be much easier than we think, just one maybe two of the right players.

I am probably older than you and have seen so many changes, from Alf Ramsey and his wingless wonders to the italians with deep lying strikers.....but things always get reintroduced or regurgitated, very little is new as a concept......Managers find ways of imposing their Nous and have to forage amongst their squads to get the end product, they are looking for.

Edited May 4, 2020 by TRO

[VillaChris]

What did you think of Gana when he was here TRO?

[TRO]

6 hours ago, VillaChris said:

What did you think of Gana when he was here TRO?

Similar to Kante, good player.

I thought he showed the skills that had him dictating his own fate, it was clear he was using us as a stepping stone......but for me, I like a more physical specimen in that role...but he goes on to play for PSG....so I have to temper my thinking.

I am more a Viera or Essien man, not to mention UTD being a team when Keane was there......some will say, no doubt, that we don't play like that anymore.....despite Henderson and Fernandinho occupying places in the best two teams in the league...with Busquets only just coming to the end of a great Barcelona career.

I am not saying a more svelte  player can't play that role, because Makakele wasn't a beast....I just think a physical presence in front of the two central boys, helps enormously.

I think we look disparagingly at the likes of Conor Hourihane at times , I do, and on occasions criticise him for things a more appropriate player should be employed to do.

I also think a good CDM would transform us and other players, more than we think. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by TRO

[Hobbit Feet]

I don’t know why Conor feels the need to come out and state the obvious. He’s just fuelling speculation that no one needs right now. Probably wants him to leave so he can get in the team.

[TRO]

On 05/05/2020 at 20:31, TRO said:

Similar to Kante, good player.

I thought he showed the skills that had him dictating his own fate, it was clear he was using us as a stepping stone......but for me, I like a more physical specimen in that role...but he goes on to play for PSG....so I have to temper my thinking.

I am more a Viera or Essien man, not to mention UTD being a team when Keane was there......some will say, no doubt, that we don't play like that anymore.....despite Henderson and Fernandinho occupying places in the best two teams in the league...with Busquets only just coming to the end of a great Barcelona career.

I am not saying a more svelte  player can't play that role, because Makakele wasn't a beast....I just think a physical presence in front of the two central boys, helps enormously.

I think we look disparagingly at the likes of Conor Hourihane at times , I do, and on occasions criticise him for things a more appropriate player should be employed to do.

I also think a good CDM would transform us and other players, more than we think. 

Another one that appealed to me was Yaya Toure in his prime,I know they are ambitious shouts, but thats what we have to aim for.

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by TRO