Conor Hourihane

[tinker]

Great attitude, should be in or around our first team squad and it's quite clear he is ..........subject to an 8 figure sine coming in 

[Kiwivillan]

5 hours ago, Hobbit Feet said:

I really like the guy, I think my opinion on him changed last year when he grabbed the Leeds player after goalgate, but let’s all be honest he does look a little lost as a DM, he never seems to know weather to close the ball, the space or go with a runner and for me he always makes the wrong decision and gets bypassed, but even McGinn did that a few times today. I will say that he’s got great delivery and I do think he has a part to play this season. I think if we go 4-4-2 against some teams he will be excellent as a CM with another DM player in there. 

So even less central midfield spots to compete with Grealish McGinn Nakamba Luiz for 1 of 2?

[Newry_Villan]

Divides opinion doesn't he? No denying he has a great left peg. Won't start every game but great squad option to have.

[MikeMcKenna]

Hourihane playing or not is a real enigma. When we are on the front foot he is an excellent player to have on the pitch. When it’s the reverse..... 

It will very much come down to who we are playing whether he starts or not. 

[QldVilla]

I think the problem with Hourihane is his skills and attributes don't quite fit perfectly within the system we play at the PL level, where he could get away with it in the Championship. His best position is probably as a AM. As some have already said, once the new DM's become fit, he will probably start coming off the bench and come on when the CM need a rest or we're chasing a goal. He's a good professional and works on his game, and offers something different, but will probably be off the bench.

[Johnnyp]

Not leaving the shirt go without a fight. Fair play to him. That's what you want to see in any dressing room.

[troon_villan]

I like him. It's hard not too to be fair. I wish he was better than he is because he's the type of guy you want to do well for your team.  

I hope we have a good cup run as I'm sure he'll be part of that but if we're honest he won't see many PL starts barring injury. 

An excellent squad player and I just hope he's OK with that. 

[briny_ear]

I think the manager rates him a lot more than quite a lot of Villatalkers do.

Could be wrong but I think he is in our starting lineup and has the place until he loses form or gets injured.

[DakotaVilla]

He’s clearly worked hard over the summer. It’s his shirt to lose - simple as that. 

 

[TheAuthority]

Remember that he's had a season and a half working under Bruce and his coaches, and MON at international level. 

He's finally getting some decent coaching now with Deano and our new backroom staff which is why I think his formed picked up in the later half of the season (remember him being booed off at VP?) I also back him to keep improving.

[Hobbit Feet]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Remember that he's had a season and a half working under Bruce and his coaches, and MON at international level. 

He's finally getting some decent coaching now with Deano and our new backroom staff which is why I think his formed picked up in the later half of the season (remember him being booed off at VP?) I also back him to keep improving.

Yes he’s improved but we didn’t boo him for his lack of football ability, I don’t think we’ve ever done that at villla park, I mean Taylor doesn’t get booed. It was his lack of fight and willingness to get stuck that had the crowd feeling like that towards him, but he’s certainly improved that no end.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Hobbit Feet

[AJ]

26 minutes ago, Hobbit Feet said:

Yes he’s improved but we didn’t boo him for his lack of football ability, I don’t think we’ve ever done that at villla park, I mean Taylor doesn’t get booed. It was his lack of fight and willingness to get stuck that had the crown feeling like that towards him, but he’s certainly improved that no end.

Don't tell me Wills booed him?

[Indigo]

Our best midfielder yesterday playing alongside Jack and McGinn, and scored two goals in the process. If any of our new midfield signings had done the same Conor's eulogy would have already been written by some Villa fans. The more he rises above all the stick he gets the more I rate him.

[VILLAMARV]

I don't think there's anyone in here who thinks he is the ideal DM

but there appear to be a load of people who think 3rd/4th choice midfielder at AVFC = shite. There was a time in the not too distant past where that was probably true but thankfully we've moved on a bit.

He's been an important player for us over the rebuild. He's built up a lot of good faith with me as a result.

Like a few of our players he has his limitations. There are few players out there who don't. He's an asset for sure and I'm glad we have him in our ranks.

fwiw I think Luiz will make the spot his own. If Conor gets a few games there while he gets up to speed so be it. Grealish and McGinn are unlikely to play all 38 league games

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, Hobbit Feet said:

It was his lack of fight and willingness to get stuck in 

Not something you expect from an Irishman. 

(Hope that's not racist...) 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Not something you expect from an Irishman. 

(Hope that's not racist...) 

Unless sober

I like Hourihane. I get he sometimes gets caught out not tracking but I don’t think it’s his game. Whether he should start or not against Spurs I don’t know. But he will certainly play an important part for us this season I’m sure. 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, Hobbit Feet said:

Yes he’s improved but we didn’t boo him for his lack of football ability, I don’t think we’ve ever done that at villla park, I mean Taylor doesn’t get booed. It was his lack of fight and willingness to get stuck that had the crowd feeling like that towards him, but he’s certainly improved that no end.

Fight and mileage aren't just psychological, it's partly just who you are. Hourihane is a skinny lad who doesn't have McGinn's engine or Jack's raw talent and athleticism. I just don't think he's ever going to be a blood and thunder player, and we should just accept that he plays DM in a certain way, and not berate him for struggling with certain aspects of the game.

I actually disagree with a lot of the comments here that AM is his natural position. I reckon he'd feel most comfortable as a deepish ballplaying midfielder alongside a ball winning midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, joining the attacks late and spraying passes out to the wings. Dean Smith has asked him to play defensive mid in a 4-3-3, which is clearly DS's favoured system, but lone DM in a 4-3-3 (basically a 4-1-4-1) is a much harder role for someone with Hourihane's attributes.

He's dealt with a ton of abuse, been in and out of the team for Whelan, and stuck it out admirably. Coming off the bench when you've been dropped isn't easy, but he came on and basically put us through to the play-off final.

He's been taking pelters from the fans all summer (which he must know about) with the club chasing loads of defensive midfielders, and fans expecting him to be a bench warmer. He's come out and had consistently good games in pre-season, and he clearly has Dean Smith's trust now.

I understand everyone's reservations about him there at the back of that 4-3-3 when we're defending or playing out of defence, but it might be a price worth paying for his set pieces and long shots, which can deliver goals against any level of opposition. Also he has improved at his DM responsibilities:

• his fouls are more sensible. Yellow card vs. Leipzig was good game management, breaking up a dangerous counter attack. Last season he often did pointless fouls early on to "set the tone" and it achieved nothing.
• He looks calmer receiving the ball deep - doesn't panic and doesn't always play the Hollywood pass (although will be interesting to see if he can carry that mentality into the league when the games mean something).
• He holds his position better, although he's still not very positionally aware. But last season he would just abandon his slot without anyone covering him, leaving a huge gap up the middle for a counter attack (Sheffield Utd exploited this in the 3-3). He still does that a bit, but he seems more comfortable with what he's been asked to do.

However, if you look at Liverpool's stats last season (a good comparison because they mainly play 4-3-3 I think), you see Fabinho on 2.1 tackles per game, Keita on 1.5, Henderson on 1.4, and Wijnaldum on 1.2.

For comparison, for Villa last season McGinn had 2.1 tackles per game, Hourihane had 1.4, Whelan had 1.3, Grealish had 1.1.

So clearly Hourihane is not doing as much defensive work as a specialist DM.

[Hobbit Feet]

29 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Fight and mileage aren't just psychological, it's partly just who you are. Hourihane is a skinny lad who doesn't have McGinn's engine or Jack's raw talent and athleticism. I just don't think he's ever going to be a blood and thunder player, and we should just accept that he plays DM in a certain way, and not berate him for struggling with certain aspects of the game.

I actually disagree with a lot of the comments here that AM is his natural position. I reckon he'd feel most comfortable as a deepish ballplaying midfielder alongside a ball winning midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, joining the attacks late and spraying passes out to the wings. Dean Smith has asked him to play defensive mid in a 4-3-3, which is clearly DS's favoured system, but lone DM in a 4-3-3 (basically a 4-1-4-1) is a much harder role for someone with Hourihane's attributes.

He's dealt with a ton of abuse, been in and out of the team for Whelan, and stuck it out admirably. Coming off the bench when you've been dropped isn't easy, but he came on and basically put us through to the play-off final.

He's been taking pelters from the fans all summer (which he must know about) with the club chasing loads of defensive midfielders, and fans expecting him to be a bench warmer. He's come out and had consistently good games in pre-season, and he clearly has Dean Smith's trust now.

I understand everyone's reservations about him there at the back of that 4-3-3 when we're defending or playing out of defence, but it might be a price worth paying for his set pieces and long shots, which can deliver goals against any level of opposition. Also he has improved at his DM responsibilities:

• his fouls are more sensible. Yellow card vs. Leipzig was good game management, breaking up a dangerous counter attack. Last season he often did pointless fouls early on to "set the tone" and it achieved nothing.
• He looks calmer receiving the ball deep - doesn't panic and doesn't always play the Hollywood pass (although will be interesting to see if he can carry that mentality into the league when the games mean something).
• He holds his position better, although he's still not very positionally aware. But last season he would just abandon his slot without anyone covering him, leaving a huge gap up the middle for a counter attack (Sheffield Utd exploited this in the 3-3). He still does that a bit, but he seems more comfortable with what he's been asked to do.

However, if you look at Liverpool's stats last season (a good comparison because they mainly play 4-3-3 I think), you see Fabinho on 2.1 tackles per game, Keita on 1.5, Henderson on 1.4, and Wijnaldum on 1.2.

For comparison, for Villa last season McGinn had 2.1 tackles per game, Hourihane had 1.4, Whelan had 1.3, Grealish had 1.1.

So clearly Hourihane is not doing as much defensive work as a specialist DM.

Much of what you say is true but the big problem is his decision making off the ball, he doesn’t know what to do, he hesitates to close the ball down, or the space or the runner, he always seems to make the wrong decision in my opinion. And he just gets bypassed and at top level it will be very telling.

[AVTuco]

We all agree he's not a DM, but problem is he's not an AM either. He just has a great left foot. If he doesn't score (or assist) from a set piece, he's pretty much useless, a liability actually.

[MrBlack]

24 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

He just has a great left foot. If he doesn't score (or assist) from a set piece, he's pretty much useless, a liability actually.

I disagree with this to an extent.  On the ball he's acceptable in most scenarios and very good in others. It's only off the ball where he's a liability.  It's whether his on the ball goal creating/ scoring abilities create more goals than his off the ball antics concede that make it a decision to be made.

He's come up though the leagues from league 2 to the premier league in a fairly short space of time, so he may need some time to get used to the pace and pressure applied in one of the best leagues in the world.  If he can do that with proper coaching (and he's shown signs of improving a lot under Dean already) then I think he has the natural ability to be a great player for us.

However,  we can't afford to lose even quarter of a season waiting if he doesn't pick it up very quickly.

Edited August 4, 2019 by MrBlack